HOTW V - Set Up Thread II, or The Return of the Mods

[The Capo]

I can't attend because I'll be at work by then.

So Spain is not going to be there.

This sucks.

[OmnipotentTrout]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


So what's 17:30 in normal people's (12 hour clock) time?



We should just use UGT (Universal Game Time). So saying "an hour before the regular game time" would be easier, I think.

But I'll be there.

Game times change

"Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'."

[deity]

Sorry guys... I'm having the busiest time at work lately and totally missed the Summit I believe. AND with only 12 hours to go before session start I've just finished reading all the posts since last week!

Is it just me or does everyone spend hours reading this stuff??!!

I think I'm a slow reader, sorry.

Anyway I'm up to speed now and I'll try and get a post in; plus deal with PM's....

[KunojiLym]

We actually have personal secretaries to report the minute details to us; we simply dictate to them and they comply. Oh, and they're totally hot too.

[LzPrst]

yeah, mine is writing this as I dictate, while sitting on my lap

and yes. I do spend way too much time reading these forums, but when I'm reading for my exams the computer is soooo close..... and when i touch it, civ calls to me, it touches my heart and draws me close, I cannot resist.
ahem, anyway, my pm box is apparently full, i'm gonna clean it up now, so if anyone wants to send me some secrets of great importance go ahead

[NicodaMax]

Oh how I miss those days when I had time to use my PC during the week...
or when I had time at work to do some apolytoning
I'm confirming for friday's session, well, today's session I should say
22:30 UTC (which is 18:30 EST, 6:30 pm local) right?
I've been looking forward to this all week

[The Capo]

Confirmations

I think we were missing a couple of confirmations, but I'm quit sure those people have responded since then, so from what I can gather we WILL have;

Capo
Ozzy
Deity
Nico
Kuno
LzPrst
CyberShy
Nolan

I don't think we've heard from Dragon, and although Cyber usually vouches for him, I think more pressure needs to be put on him to AT LEAST check the set-up thread.

I should be online, or on and off-line, for the duration of the day until the session. So IM me if you need anything.

[KunojiLym]

All in favor of conquering Dragon, say aye.

>_>
<_<

*You saw nothing!*

*poof*

[LzPrst]

concerning dragon, his absence from posting and lack of active involvement in the diplomatic aspect of the game is imo somewhat of a problem.

france could if using diplomacy wisely, possibly get out of their current hole. their vassalage-like status however is a problem in my opinion. the result is that america is playing two nations since france has no individual ambitions or desires of their own. I would like us to discuss the situation further sometime after tonights session (not right after as it will be really late here).

[OzzyKP]

I am open to discussing that.

[Robert]

You guys should tell Dragon that he should be more involved. Since I'm his brother, he's always like: "You can do that"

It's a pitty that we started next to each other and depend on each other as small nations. He's not my vasal state, it's just that we have common interest, like we all have in the southern region (Germany, France and America)

But I've said it again: ask him to be more active on the forums and read the set-up thread, and at least have some input in the other thread.
He's into the game, he's just not really into the story telling thread, which is a pitty.

[OzzyKP]

Ok, lemme explain this as clearly as possible.

Everyone is complaining that it isn't fair that the big powers are all allied together. You say the game is unbalanced. You say all us big powers are ganging up on the little guys.

That's not true.

Did Kuno and I get together one day and say "hey, we've got the most points, lets ally together, we'll be unbeatable!"

No.

No.

No.

Couldn't be farther from the truth. That didn't happen. Lemme tell you what did happen. Here is the full chain of events for how my perfect roleplay story came together.

- I built stonehenge.
- I looked on wikipedia for a famous Indian astrologer to write a story about involving stonehenge.
- According to the entry the king at the time was Janaka.
- I wrote the post and started using King Janaka.
- China starts talking about marrage alliances. That interests me.
- I do more research, I see that King Janaka held a CONTEST for the hand of his daughter Sita.
- I thought it'd be a brilliant idea to replicate such a contest here for our game.
- So I did, and I contacted EVERYONE inviting them to try for it.
- Now, I wanted to be FAIR. So instead of just picking someone to ally with (which is what you guys accuse me of), I decided to have an ACTUAL COMPETITION where all of you would compete for Sita's hand (i.e. an alliance with me).
- The only fair way that would give everyone and equal chance, would be to play an actual game. I chose pacman since it fit in best with the story (fighting spirits in a jungle maze).
- I really, really, really wanted everyone to participate. Only China & Russia did.
- I tried to get you guys involved, but most people declined.
- So Russia won, and China came in second.

BECAUSE OF THAT, India allied closely with Russia and developed a friendly relationship with China.

If you guys had cared, then India could have had a close alliance with America, or Germany, or England, or Inca, or France. But no. You guys said no.

But of course, Rho has a problem with how I conducted this. First he accuses me of stacking the deck against him by forming an alliance of all the big powers. I show him CONCLUSIVELY that that isn't the case. Then he complains because I used a fair method of picking an ally and invited every one to participate.

Let me say that again.

Rho is mad because I used a fair method of picking an ally that gave everyone an equal chance to be my ally.

How many times do I need to say this for it to sink in?

Russia and I were not allied since 4000 BC. As Rho said, he and I were more friendly at the beginning than Russia and I were. I went looking for an ally, and Russia volunteered. Where was AMerica? Where was England? They didn't care, they didn't compete. So they weren't my ally. Your decision.

Rho says that roleplaying involves talking not playing games, and that my pacman idea was stupid or somehow anti-roleplaying (yet at the same time accusing us of stacking the deck). So let me explain it in role playing terms.

Whether or not pacman is thought to be valid, what it shows is that Russia was so interested in my friendship that they put in the time to help me develop my story. Is it any wonder I would feel extra affinity both in the story and OCC for Russia? If America had made an effort, then I'd be allied with them now.

But again, I can't win. No matter what, its my fault some how. I did something wrong somehow.

Its my fault for deciding to ally with all the biggest powers. AND its my fault for developing a fair, impartial way of deciding who I ally with.

[condor223]

China's view of things:

Early on China traded with everyone. We had Spain as a huge AI sucking up land, and everyone decided mogolia as an ai civ should be curbed, so meanwhile, spain AI grew.

At first everyone traded with china, but just before the first war, everyone stopped and the score told me that China was out of the trading loop. The option to make an alliance with India and russia seemed to be a very logical choice.

Capo came in about that time as Spain. I fought off hordes of barbarians who erased every single improvement. It was apparent that I could not be involved in warfare since id just recently secured our own civ. I had two chariots to give in the mongol war.. and still had barbarians on me at that time.

I'm so tired now I can't write properly, but nothing was intended to go after others, not in any of our conversations was it an alliance to "take on" others. At one point we were convinced that it was a 4v4! Even watching unit trades in the graphs indicated that some civs were gifting stacks to another civ to hit india.

It would not be my intention of giving a stack to start something.. only as defensive units.

=========
As you probably know, I have been around MP for a while. The ladderites have epic games and set up strict rules before they start. a few of them are:
Standard size map
up to 8 players.
faster pace than epic.. so that folks wont be emotionally involved with this for ages.
also no barbarians,
Find your own sub or let the ai play it
and no war till 1 ad for the most games.

Of course it is possible to agree on everything and change it all, but they have experienced that the above rules work. It works nicely.
===========
The Rng was evil for us in this game. The starts were squished for some and generous for others.
we might have restarted early on to even it out.

Be at peace. Everyone thought it was 4v4... atleast that is how it looked from this civ's angle.

[OzzyKP]

And Dragon, I didn't mean to pick on you. I'm sorry if it came off that way. I really do appreciate you for sticking with this game and showing up every week. With all the problems we've had, its quite admirable that you've been dependable the whole time. I've always defended having you in this game.

My comments weren't meant to hurt, but in the heated argument everyone was having, they had more edge to them. I apologize.

My point is, again, you and others were complaining that the game was unbalanced. I was trying to show you how we all had so many opportunities in this game from the beginning. No matter our starting positions. Indeed we still have many opportunities. If you took a different strategy you could have been a dominant player.

Look how Germany has turned themselves around. They were far below the pack from when the AI controlled them. But because they expanded into those islands and made some smart decisions in the game, they are definitely on the rebound.

England & Inca were also cramped, but they are also doing quite well now.

This game is far more fluid than people admit, and it depends on the choices we make in the game. Sometimes people will get ahead, and sometimes people will fall behind. That's the nature of the game. Everyone should be actively working to improve their position.

So expand, invent, build wonders, make alliances, change alliances, attack neighbors, etc. That's how the game goes.

Personally I like playing in games where the odds are against me, and coming back to have a sizable impact on the game. Even if I'm not the best in the game. I even try handicapping myself in diplogames usually. Like in HOTW3 I picked the Arabs and started in all desert on the world map. The rottenest land on the entire map. Then in HOTW4 I picked England, my start was a small island and my growth was definitely stunted because of it. But I liked the challenge and I found a way to play to my strengths and thus overcome my weaknesses. That is the key to being successful both in this game and in life.

[OmnipotentTrout]

(PacMan should be more used in solving disputes. such as the Iran conflict )