Attention All Diplogamers!

[The Capo]

Thanks.

Thanks for understanding guys, I know it came at a very bad time but games can be put on hold for serious issues like this. I hate the fact that I wasn't there for the start of the game, but I am happy that it went through.

Hopefully Spain isn't left in an entirely terrible position.

I have one request though; anyone who posts about Spain could they please refer to the leader as "King Bainor of Castille" instead of Isabella. It will greatly help my storylines when I do take over.

Again, I am very impressed with the diplogame community so far, we've made the jump to the Civ 4 MP section and hopefully that will bode well for us. I also urge everyone in this game to PLEASE sign up for the Diplogames CivGroup.

Finally, thanks again for everyone's understanding in this situation, believe me, I wish it didn't happen for numerous reasons and I am happy I wasn't booted from the game, even if I have to let the AI control my country for a while...

Peace.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by NicodaMax
Just in case you're talking to/about me....opened the game. All is good, except that our precious Incan empire has been under the rule of a ****** (AI is an oxymoron, im sure)
See you friday night (8 pm is a little early for me but I'll be there)

Kinda neat that we picked a random civ for you and its the Inca considering you live in Chile.

[deity]

Originally posted by CyberShy
That's an important rule indeed. Don't advance the turn.

Something else: I can't play friday march 10th
I'll see if I can arrange a sub somewhere.
Can Deity tell if he can be around friday? And LzPrst if his friend will be available?

I'm definitely available this week and would love a new start if everyone is not so happy.. otherwise I'll play with what I've got as England, from the AI.

Deity Dude I'm sure would sub or play if we started a little later... he said he needs a start delayed by only one hour and he's a good reliable player, mostly!

[deity]

Originally posted by LzPrst
sorry about your friend capo. stuff like that really sucks I hope he recovers.

hopefully deity can sub for you if your girlfriend wont accept you taking 3 hours for yourself on your birthday. girlfriends + special occasions are valid absence reasons.

@ nico. do you have our patch?

oh. and omnipotent trout's comp has attempted hara-kiri. he'll be working to get it back in shape for game on friday but no guarantees. though I might be able to get a sub for him. my unstable flatmate can take over. he plays too much WoW to be a regular, but he could probably be great at sub'ing.

Deity Dude is NOT deity (that is me)

Deity Dude might sub, yes...

Me, deity, well I'm England!

[Robert]

I'm sorry for abbreviating deity_dude into 'deity'
I can see that's a little confusing.

I suggest we call deity_Dude ddude from now on 8)

I still believe that a restart would be a good thing.
If we want to have a good game I think everybody should have a fair start. The 'northern' kingdoms have a 200% better start since they have place for like 7-12 cities. The southern kingdoms have place for 2 or 3 cities.

Not to mention the "4 players didn't start" thing.

About ddude, so far he was online everytime we started the game. If we start the game 1 hour later there's only 2 hour left for playing, that's not so much.

[LzPrst]

weeeell. starting again is a definite possibility, HOWEVER, I really like the start we got. it really is kinda... earth map'ish. we got 4 civs crammed into a very small space (europe) we got some civs far away with lots of space (asian big civs) we have a few wild cards (the AI is a great way to simulate a "depression" or a late development). and civ4 does allow for civs to swerve up and down despite poor starts.

finally I would like to add that despite a definite shortage of potential german port cities I love my start. (berlin does have the potential for über-greatness )

I say we tough it out. if this was the "real" world the europeans couldnt say, "dammit, theres not enough space for everyone, we should get another map"

instead they decided to battle\negotiate\trick and wipe eachother out. perfect situation for a diplogame, like we have it. also, remember that building many cities early in civ4 is a definite hamstring, not a boost so there will be natural restrictions on the "asian" civ's expansion early on. and remember, the "european" civs will start trade very early, they will settle their land and start exploring for more very early, they will organize into alliances\agreements very early, all definite advantages over the more isolated civs.

all in all I feel that the start I got is perfect for this type of game. some others may feel shortchanged, like france and america, but isnt it far more interesting like that? in ancient times city states in the middle east were practically tossed up right next to eachother.

just to clarify, by european civs ingame I mean germany, france, america and india which have starting positions all within one average-zoomed game screen. the northern civs I dare to claim (though I havent explored them yet) to be similar to the great civs of asia.

I'd really like to play this a few more sessions to see where it goes.

oh. and a final mention. nico and your incans, beware. thecapo plays spain

[Robert]

I actually am pretty good in building many cities 8)
My entire tactic (financial / organised) is based on it.
I'm sure I can do without it as well, so no problems to continue. But all lucks are against me and there's really no value to my traits left over.

Oh well, that's life 8)

What I wonder about: if the AI takes over for one session for me, will it continue my build queue? Will it continue my tech-path?
If so, then it's not that bad to be not available for one session.

[OzzyKP]

I agree with Lz.

With 10 people in the game it is going to be pretty much impossible to get all 10 in the game every single week, if we don't suck it up and accept that the AI or subs are going to take over civs here and there then this game will never happen.

There is no way I am going to accept restarting. Certainly I'd like a start that wasn't surrounded by jungle and other players, but these constant delays are intolerable. We started a game in November and have been working pretty much constantly for the next 3 months trying to get a game going. Three ****ing months. I've already been down the restart path. And what happened after we restarted? After another session or two people wnated to restart again. **** that. If we keep going like that there will be no end.

If we wanted absolutely perfectly balanced starts then we would have picked a different map. But we were going for realism and a diplogaming environment. As Lz pointed out, I think we've got that perfectly.

Also don't forget that we've got a big ass continent in the New World just aching for some conquest. There is plenty of land for us, its actually nice that we are all cramped together, if all of us had plenty of land we wouldn't need the New World at all. Now we've got a real reason to go out and explore and settle.

And yes I know Washington is suited for expansion with his traits, but we can't have every game turn out perfect. I'm a bit disappointed that there are another 3 civs that have Industrial as a trait, and I'm the one stuck with a crappy spot without much production potential or easy access to stone or marble. I was hoping to rack up some wonders, but probably not anymore. But that's the roll of the dice. We have to play it where it lands. No do overs. But honestly, the point of this game is not to be the biggest, strongest, most dominant (well that's part of it, but not all of it). Unlike a slash 'em up game, in a diplogame you can have a quite enjoyable time being a second rate power.

Finally, your two complaints are off-setting. One complaint is that 4 people were run by AI for the first session. The other complaint is that the northern folks all have much more land than we do. Well those are the same people. If they suffered from being AI run, they'll rebound because of ample land. I think things will balance out nicely. Anyways, like Lz said, this is part of the fun and part of the game.


Play on.

[Robert]

Like I said, it's fine with me to continue.
It's just that there's a difference between having an AI / sub for the 2nd or 3rd session or having one for the first session.

I'll need a sub in two weeks anyway, and that's no problem by me. That's my main argument.
But if we continue (what apparantly is going to happen) then I'll be a part of it for sure!

[condor223]

I don't mind continuing, however next time I think fewer civs on standard map would be better... also a little faster speed.. and a medium timer. That will allow more folks with marginal rigs to play.

When I played c3c epic games with 8, we noted that it usually dwindled down during the later sessions. Getting subs became a real issue, as weekly games lasting a month required everyone's lives to be stable. The longer the game lasted, there were fewer returning .. mostly those in a winning postition returned. It was very difficult to keep that many folks around consistently for more than 3-4 weeks. Even the second session of those epic games often required subs.

Smaller games don't indicate leaving folks out.. why not two games going? Smaller map? Fewer civs?

Nols/condor223

[The Capo]

I understand that I have not actually seen the map yet, but from what I gather I don't see this as much of a problem. I mean, the point of a diplogame is to use diplomacy to gain leverage. If certain tribes are stymied, then certain tribes are stymied, I don't see the point of restarting even though I wasn't there for the first session, or this coming session.

My storyline is going to be one, if you've started reading it yet, where Spain isn't even Spain quite yet. So having the AI control it for now is not going to be a bother to me as it won't be exactly Spain until I run it.

But I would say not to restart, we should let other players take over some AI and it will make for an interesting game. IF we want to really prevent AI from playing too much I would suggest a shorter session, but it doesn't matter to me.

I'm just lucky to have guys like you accomodate me right now. Thanks.

In sum; I suggest we keep playing, if the tribes that have been AI so far can't get leaders we'll find some. Nobody should worry about their spot, because that's' where the diplomacy has to come into play.

[Robert]

The key is: dedicated players.
diplo games need dedicated players.

And dedicated players will play long games. They even prefer them. I think toning these games down will only attrackt less devoted players.

[OzzyKP]

Agreed Cyber.

And yes Capo.

[LzPrst]

hear hear. lets go for the long haul.

and just a side note. I hate hunters! (in WoW) and i hate alliance! cowardly scumbags.

[The Capo]

Just promise me nobody marginalizes Spain outright, that would suck.

Remember China Ozzy and Deity?

Just sayin...