AU 100-A DAR 3: The Classical Era

[Arrian]

I remember a game not too long ago (can't remember if it was Noble or Prince, though), where my closest friend gave me a tech as a gift. I was trying to click on "what do you want for this" but I missed and hit "could you spare this for a friend?" And lo & behold, they coughed it up! It wasn't necessarily a shiny new tech, but still!

-Arrian

[DeepO]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Prince Difficulty, 450 AD

Originally posted by Cort Haus


Gifts from the AI? Wow. I have been able to ask and get things in return after agreeing to a friendly demand, and in one game I noticed that by agreeing to the first demand (and not being too weak) there were no further demands from the same Civ for a long time, if ever.

I've seen that too, but I wasn't sure whether this was because he was waiting for me to ask for something, or because I was simply growing less friendly with him.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Arrian
I remember a game not too long ago (can't remember if it was Noble or Prince, though), where my closest friend gave me a tech as a gift. I was trying to click on "what do you want for this" but I missed and hit "could you spare this for a friend?" And lo & behold, they coughed it up! It wasn't necessarily a shiny new tech, but still!

-Arrian

Arrian, I'm not talking about these 'gifts'. If you ask something from a friendly, you've got a good chance of succeeding, especially if you're a bit below him in score/strength/whatever.

I was talking about the AI giving techs spontaneously. I don't ask, they simply give.

But like I said, I didn't see it lately. I don't know if it has been tweaked, or simply because I never got in that kind of game anymore. As a tester, you're supposed to test different playstyles... the superfriendly route is something I haven't done in a while.

DeepO

[DeepO]

BTW, extortion is a very cool gimmick as well. Getting techs by demanding them is not that easy, but gold or maps many AI will give. You will receive a 'you made a arrogant demand' -1 modifier to relations, whether he gave in to the extortion or not. That doesn't happen when simply asking to 'spare this for a good friend'.

DeepO

[Arrian]

Ah, ok, sorry I misunderstood. Spontaneous gifts from the AI? Wow.

I haven't had a lot of success demanding stuff. Then again, the AI typically doesn't have a whole heckuva lot of stuff I want other than tech (piles of gold, for instance), and tech is - as you say - hard to get via demands.

-Arrian

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Arrian
I haven't had a lot of success demanding stuff. Then again, the AI typically doesn't have a whole heckuva lot of stuff I want other than tech (piles of gold, for instance), and tech is - as you say - hard to get via demands.

Any gold is good, when you know you're going to war anyway. And you can nearly always get e.g. 100 gold. That's most of the times enough to upgrade one more unit.

It's a bit exploitative, but you can demand gold the turn you declare war. I've done so in this game with Isa (but that is DAR #5, which I'll probably write today). I don't see a disadvantage for the moment: Sure, the attitude towards you will go down, but who cares when you are set on destroying them anyway.

Reminds me I still have to mention that to Firaxis

DeepO

[Arrian]

Either a 5-turn delay before you can declare or possibly (if possible w/o screwing other things up) program the AI to *never* give into another demand if you demand + attack that civ within X turns (5? 10?).

-Arrian

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Arrian
Either a 5-turn delay before you can declare or possibly (if possible w/o screwing other things up) program the AI to *never* give into another demand if you demand + attack that civ within X turns (5? 10?).

-Arrian

I read this too late... good thing we had similar ideas then

Already reported.

DeepO

[kptb]

Quick move to medieval

Noble difficulty


Ancient I
Ancient II
Classical
Midieval
Renaissance


We entered the classical era in 850. 825 BC sees start of masonry. We spread our religion, Confucianism, to Washington in 800 BC. Masonry comes online in 775 and iron working is decided upon as our next big step toward a prosperous empire. The year 750 BC is eventful, New York builds an archer and begins on a library, it adopts Confucianism and the great city of Akron is founded north of Boston. It immediately is ordered to bolster it defenses with another archer.
In the year 650 BC Washington beasts Delphi and constructs the oracle. The oracle predicts a bright future for our empire and reveals the secret of civil service to us, thus catapulting us into the medieval era.
The glorious American Empire is ranked first in area, second in GNP, third in food, forth in population and sixth in goods and soldiers. We anticipate iron working in 2 turns, an archer in Washington in four, a settler in Boston in five, a library in NY in eighteen and an archer in Akron in twenty-one.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Arrian
Either a 5-turn delay before you can declare or possibly (if possible w/o screwing other things up) program the AI to *never* give into another demand if you demand + attack that civ within X turns (5? 10?).

-Arrian

I handed over something like Fibre Optics to Napoleon last night, and he attacked next turn anyway. So, the AI uses that exploit too.

[Blake]

Monarch Difficulty


My first significant action of the Classical Era was founding Alanta, on a river, next to the gold, with a couple of workers ready to hook that gold right up.
After Mathematics I researched Masonary, as to get started on the Hanging Gardens, then Sailing to link up the furs city which I'll capture at some point.


Illinois feels the burn! Mainly because it was size 1.
Horribly, I lost 2 Horse Archers taking it, both with 2 Combat Upgrades. It isn't right losing as many units to a lousy size 1 barb city as took the mighty Mongolian Capital, but I was prepared with 4 Horse Archers anyway.


Speaking of Mongolians, their capital has a name I can't remember, so I renamed it. Quite insensitive to their culture, very "American" of me, I feel.
Anyway, Mongol Central is feeling the cultural squeeze, so I'm going to (try and) build the Hanging Gardens there, it's not that I want them, they're just the only wonder I can build.

Hinduism spread to my lands, and in a stroke of luck it spread to Mongol Central, the very city which needed an extra happy to offset the conquered peoples woes.

So Isabella, I was wondering if you.. i mean if I could... uh... Isabella! CAN I BE YOUR HINDU BUDDY?!!!
I can? Yay!
Guess she isn't picky...

Anyway I want to befriend Isabella as she will help protect my very exposed eastern borders, she is also not a credible threat, unlike the Arabs and Eygptions to the North, both of who will need to be put down sooner rather than later. As an added bonus Isabella has a different religion to everyone else, so with luck I'll be her only friend, so she wont have open borders with my, I mean, our enemies.


I get my first Great Scientist, and make an Acadamy, Construction goes from 12 turns to 9 turns. Nice.


I locate the Mongol HQ when it's borders expand, Saladin and Hatty had just declared war, so I decided to declare war on Genghis and go take a looksee, I'll bring in 4 horses and take it, it's in a fine spot.


Chicago is founded, and a force of horses is massing to take Pheygian.

The same turn, Isabella reminds me that she's an evil witch by changing to Juadism. I thought we were friends!
I'll be staying Hindu for now, atleast while building the gardens.


Phrygian joins the winning team! In a startling display of competence, no horses were lost.


Beshbalik is mine! Yay for Ivory! I gotta stop taking so many screenshots...

Soon after, Isabella calls and demands I change religion to Juadism. I fold, For the brownie points!


And the horde of skilled horse riders sweep across the lands from the Mongolian Heartlands, conquering and razing all in their path!
The Mongols are no more. I razed one city and kept their final one, it has Spice and Bananas.

The Hanging Gardens have been completed in Mongol Central. Also the Marble tile has flipped over to me.

The Mongols destroyed and the barbarians supressed, my economy humming along at ... 30% science. With Code of Laws researched I start building those cheap courthouses everywhere, while building Catapults to continue the war, except in Forward City which is getting a nice new Heroic Epic, and the Capital is getting the Great Library. My research is actually pretty good because I have 4 Scientists, and 30% of a big territory is still a significant amount of research.


My forces loiter outside Baghad, once the 2 workers have finished their terraforming (free improvement for me!) my horses will dash in and capture them, the other stack contains catapults. Baghdad will fall nearly instantly, then I'll move on to the rest of the Arab empire.


I trade Theology from Isabella(Theocracy! yay!), entering the Medieval era. I've been spreading Juadism from a Monastary at Forward City (it can crank out a monk every 2-3 turns), so I'll switch to Theo and open a can off whoopass on the Arabs. Also I'll be building the Forbidden Palace in Mongol Central, to lower my expensese a bit.

State of the Empire:


5 Happy Resources, 1 unconnected, 1 in Arab-soon-to-be-mine territory.
4 Healthy Resources, 2 unconnected.
None being traded, I'll probably make for-gold deals.
One of the biggest advantages of unbridled conquest is acquiring vast quantities of resources, this helps to allow you to focus on important spending and construction rather than happy/health stuff, helping to make a large empire profitable.

[joncnunn]

Blake, I highly recomend allowing barb cities to grow to size 2 before attacking them.

That way you get the city for free instead of having to spend a combined 100 shields & food in one city building the settler to replace the town. Settlers are much more expensive in Civ IV than they are in prior versions of Civ.

[Blake]

Why would I want to replace that town with another so near? I just wanted to get rid of it so I could move all my real units onto more important things. Not as if a plains city far from water has much growth potential, as a coastal city it'd do better one tile to the west.

Actually I did end up taking it when it rebuilt, I was suprised that it did rebuild right next to Atlanta, I wouldn't have thought it possible for a barb city to found with it's radius partialy in revealed territory, but those barbs continue to suprise me with their blatant disregard for the probable/possible.

I kept it the second time, because Iron had popped in it's radius. And had I known it was going to refound and/or about the iron, I would have let it grow to size 2 and kept it the first time. As it is, I now know more about about the founding habits of barb cities, so in retrospect did the right thing in razing it.

[Artuero]

Artuero DAR 3: Noble

Artuero DAR 3 – Classical Era (875 B.C. to 175 A.D.)

We began the classical era in 875 B.C. and immediately completed libraries in New York and Madrid. Madrid also hooked up stone which will allow us to begin to work on the pyramids efficiently. I also signed up open borders with Hatshepsut and Khan.

725 BC – Oracle built in a far-away land. So much for trying that gambit; glad I did not waste time trying.

625 BC – Adopted slavery.

525 BC – 6th Washington Warriors took Angle from the Barbarians.

450 BC – Moses born in Madrid. He immediately establishes the Mahabodhi.

In 350, Pliny wrote about the Most Advanced Civilizations. I am now in 3rd place, behind Khan and Saladin. My tech lead has faltered as I have not kept up enough commerce.

350 BC We research code of laws and found Confucianism in Angle. We begin researching theology.

150 BC Khan declares war on me! He sends a war elephant who pillages a bit. I sacrifice my 6th Warriors who soften him up enough for the 8th Archers to eliminate him, stopping the pillaging. Khan also captured one of my workers.

50 BC England (who I haven’t met yet) builds the pyramids. All that work for naught. However, I do receive over 300 coin for my spoiled efforts.

1 AD Egypt builds the Parthenon. It appears that I will not be getting many early wonders this time around.

175 AD I enter the medieval era by researching Theology and founding Christianity in Boston. Another fairly short era.

Ghengis Khan is on the attack again and has me pretty worried since my defenses, though not as slim as before, do not stack up well against his forces. I have neglected military techs and may pay for it. I will have to try to make peace with him.

I like where my techs are going; currently looking to found taoism and then go on to music to try to get the free great artist.

Expansion could be better. I have created a real sphere of influence where I am, but if I am going to go for a cultural victory I need to establish at least a few more cities to get to size 9.

Priorities for the Medieval Era would be finally bringing my military up to par, getting some wonders, and expanding the empire to cover at least nine cities.

[rrs_racer]

Monarch difficulty: DAR3, the Classical Age (475BC-50AD)

Not terribly organized notes for this one I’m afraid – just pen and paper used for the original note-gathering, as my ancient computer doesn’t much like me Alt-Tabbing out any more.

425BC – Priesthood discovered. I’m going to try and get some culture going, for resource benefits, as there are several resources juts out of the reach of our cities at the moment. But we don’t have religion yet. This is the first game where I’ve really ignored religion, and we are seriously missing it.
350BC – We are the second largest civilization. Things are going very well, considering. Might be over-expanding though, as I’m having to run 50/50 tech to break even. There’s just one more city to come, then I’ll focus on infrastructure.
225BC – Iron working discovered, and two sources of Iron nearby. Excellent.

One connected within four turns, and cities successfully defended against barbs. With the iron sorted, I can now build axemen, and a handful of them should be enough to overrun the two barb cities that lie south-west and north-east respectively.

Seattle founded near Genghis, to take advantage of some nice grassland and resources up there. That should be a nicely productive city before too long – it might even be used as a base of operations should we find ourselves in a position to hurt Genghis.

Oh, and Chicago founded too, to the north-west of New York.

150BC – A Great Scientist is born in Washington, and an Academy is constructed. I think I’m behind in tech right now, but I have a couple of cottages being developed (one is a village, and two are hamlets) on the flood plains nearby, so the tech lag should be shortlived. I’m not sure whether to abandon Great People for now (seeing as I don’t have any wonders yet – that could be a mistake) and simply focus on production. Mines are finally being erected around the capital, and I should have 12/13 production should I want it fairly soon, with the iron.

San Francisco has also been founded in the desert just to the east of the capital – that should give me some stone before too long. Meanwhile, Libraries are going up everywhere.

50AD – Christianity founded in Seattle thus ends the Classical Age. Things are finally starting to work – Christianity’s going to need to spread like wildfire if I’m really going to sort culture out in this one, as we don’t have any right now. It spreads immediately to Boston, and I’ve sent the missionary off to New York – where hopefully they can pump missionaries out and we can switch to Organized Religion at some point.

Stuff that is working:
- The expansion has meant we’re quite a big civ right now, with plenty of commerce; sadly, we have plenty of maintenance as a result.
- Production’s coming along OK, and we’ll have some productive cities fairly soon with which to churn out military. Barracks are only just starting to go up in cities now, as I’d fairly ignored military. Up until recently, the only units I could build anywhere were Warriors – that’s how dire the situation was.
- The workers are really starting to make a difference to our productivity, and waiting for so long to produce our first ones kind of worked.

Stuff that isn’t working:
- Religion. Like, we didn’t have any until last turn. Confucianism spread somewhere at about the same time as Christianity was founded by us – up until then, we were really struggling.
- Because of this, we don’t have much in the way of culture, and I’m sure we’re beginning to lag behind in terms of territory. Having cities with no culture, and hence the small radius, really hurts you in terms of productivity and resources.
- Should have got stone sooner. We still don’t have it connected, as the barbs have the territory around it.
- I think we got some bad luck with barb cities – three around where I was planning to build cities.
- Oh, and we don't have many other techs. I'll head towards Alphabet now though, I'm bound to be able to trade something.