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AU 100-A DAR 3: The Classical Era

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  • #31
    Part 2 (to 600 AD) - Noble

    The Anti-Barbarian Crusade

    The Scots had had enough. Time and time again, Barbarian warriors had menaced their cities from over the Great Desert. Boston, New York, Washington, all had had to rebuild their farms, their pastures, their roads as a result of raider pillaging. Someone had to put a stop to it.

    The movement took hold in Boston. A courageous young leader of men trained and gathered up a cadre of archers who could shoot while astride horses. These men, barely a full company, went off to lands across the desert to hunt out the fabled city of the barbarians. Fantastic stories of animals tall as houses, and other wonders near this city did not deter them.

    And they were just in time. Another band of raiding warriors was found lurking in the forests near New York and dispatched. Then, just as the city which called itself Avar was found, Mongolian warriors astride horses began to approach. Knowing that the Mongols would gladly take and plunder the city for themselves, the young Scots warriors pressed on in an attack and caught the city defended only by drunken men carrying clubs and the like. They were dispatched with ease, and the Scots took the city for themselves. After a short period, the city accepted its fate, and now labors to perfect itself.

    The Dubhghlasses are beginning to hear criticism from the people. The Mongol horse warriors could not have existed if the Dubhghlasses had not consented to let the Great Khan have the secret of horse taming in return for learning about Meditation and the worship of One God. The people ridicule this trade, for they see not much purpose in meditation, and they do not think much of the concept of gods, for with the Way of Connefushis, it is not divine providence, but rather inner understanding of li, yi and ren that leads to a better life. The Mongol horse warriors are reputedly fierce and deadly; the Scots do not look forward to facing them. Why couldn't the Dubhghlasses have wrested the secret of working the new metal “iron” from the Mongols, instead?

    Still, Boston has completed its Scottish Epic; already it draws the best and the brightest to the city. Atlanta has its obelisk, and has begun to work on a lighthouse so that boats can fish the abundant waters around the city without finding the many shoals and rocks that lie just off the point of the peninsula upon which the city sits. Work on the Parthenon and the so-called Great Library continue; Boston has plans to build a grand work of its own, a pyramid of stone upon which the priests and the monks can engage in their rituals to the glory of all. It is felt this will inspire the people to greater deeds in defense of the cities of the Scots. But other, more practical building projects intervene: first a granary, then a monastery. And in Washington, the great scientist, Merit Ptah, constructed his academy of learning.

    Finally, the Dubhghlasses have instituted a formal practice of having a single ruler from their family, always a direct descendant of the prior ruler. “The” Dubhghlas he is known; the women are excluded from this process unless under the most dire of circumstances, when no male heirs are around. This switch was initiated along with the institution of a formal “religion” (though many dispute that the Way of Connefushis is really a religion), and the codification of a system of castes to provide structure to the lives of people. The barbarians are conquered, the Scots are ready for great things!

    The Rebirth of Understanding

    It is some 600 years since the Dissemination of Connefushunism to Boston; the scholars now use that point as a break in numbering years. For 4000 years prior, the years are numbered backward and the term BC is added (Before Connefushunism). Since then, each year is numbered counting up, and the term AD (After Dissemination) is added.

    But the scholars have done little more than that. They seem accepting of what has come before, and not very interested in finding out new things. All the great advances have come not from men of learning, but from men of doing. Not since the great project to create an Alphabet, and to inspire a system of literature using it, have the men of wisdom done much.

    This is about to change, however. The scholars have received a re-awakening, a clarion call to action. Men whose interest was in music, in songs and in chants, in ceremony and in easy listening, whose pasttime was the grand organ and the simple shephard pipeflute, have systematized notation and thinking about music. They have shown it to be susceptible to mathematical thinking. They have organized how to think about such things as rhythm, meter, tone and chording. With this knowledge, a torrent of musical works begins to pour out of Washington. And other artists are inspired to compete. But to paint or sculpt the body requires knowledge of how it works. To draw in perspective requires knowledge of how we see. The scholars realize their potential, and are energized.

    Thus comes the Rebirth of Understanding. For two hundred years this awakening has been in the making. The Scots are spurred by the challenge of the peoples around them. The Arabs have founded a city in the lands near to Atlanta, lands the Scots hoped to hold for themselves someday. The Spanish, unhappy since the founding of the state “religion” of Connefushunism, have been pushing at the borders with warriors, scouting out defenses. The Mongols grow increasingly less friendly, as do the Arabs. The Spanish, the Germans and the Mongols have instituted formal calendaring systems, which help them keep track of time with a precision unknown to the Scots, who are generally happy to be in time for their dinner. The Scots emissaries write of the Mongols and the Germans having constructed bridges over rivers out of stone, and the Mongols now use a formal system of coinage to enhance their trade. No one will trade this knowledge to the Scots, so the Scots must forge ahead on their own (Genghis, the Great Khan, did offer up Iron Working, but the Scots had to pay for it with the secret of writing).

    Still, the Rebirth sees a grand empire of Scots. The Parthenon, completed in 450 AD in New York, inspires a greatness throughout the Scots lands. New York hopes to send settlers to the sunsetwardside of Washington, into lands the Scots have always promised for their progeny. Philadelphia, too, expects any day to send settlers to sunsetward, to bracket the new Arab city. Avar, the Captured City, is hunting elephants for their ivory, and training defenders for its city, while Atlanta has finished its lighthouse and works on a granary to store food. Washington still toils on its “Great” library, while Boston works on its wierdly named “Chichen Itza”, which detractors claim translates to “Foolish Waste of Time” in Mongol.

    With the Rebirth has arrived a poet extraordannaire. Calling himself simply Homer, he heads to Boston to work on creating a grand poem of classical tales. The result should be a grand explosion of culture from that city into the surrounding lands. The Dubhghlas approves, and hopes that the scholars can soon come up with their intended method for guiding ships at sea, whereupon they will institute the beginnings of a Civil Service, which will allow a better form of government. No thought of swords and the like for the Scots!

    Author's Note (brief): Well, another period of expansion is coming. However, I have probably dallied too long, in my effort to produce various wonders and such. The Arab city of Kufah was a real blow; it's poorly placed, and it will limit the reach of the city I expect to found West of Philadelphia. Plus, it will cause trouble with Saladin, that much is certain, because he will need to go through my lands to get to it.

    Of six wonders built, only one was built by me, The Parthenon. The Sistine Chapel is already built in Egypt, which has also built the Oracle, Stonehenge and the Great Lighthouse. Hatchysoupy is a pain when it comes to building things.

    No wars yet, and that is surprising. Boston is eating into both Turfan and Baghdad's cultural borders. Spain is a religious fanatic and doesn't like my choices in that regard. I'd have thought Genghis would be on my case by now; I expect it will happen soon. But I get along with Egypt, and Germany pretty much ignores me.

    I have a feeling the next roughly 600 years are going to be VERY interesting.

    I play Europa Universalis II; I dabble in everything else.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Cort Haus
      To the Warlord players (Caligula & Chriseay) - congrats for outgrowing that level during this game. The power of the AU is that documenting your play and reading other players' accounts raises your game rapidly. I'm not quite ready to step up from Prince to Monarch, as I haven't mastered Civics Management yet, or learned the tech tree (especially in the later game) and Monarch looks like a very big leap in difficulty, but I'm a lot closer than I was before this course. Enjoy Noble level - I doubt you'll be there for long
      Thanks!! The funny thing about this whole experience is I've been playing civ since I was 10 or 11 years old and I've been reading forums here and at CFC since probably 2000, but I never put any effort into getting any good at the game. The best I was ever able to do in Civ3 was warlord, and that was only sometimes. I had troubles on chieftan.

      Once I decided that not only did I want to spend a lot of time playing this game, but that I wanted to play well, it became much more fun. I enjoyed my warlord games immensely, even this one until I realized I was just that far ahead of the curve. I'm sure I'll enjoy my higher level games more, because the greater challenge will provide greater rewards.

      It just shows the beauty of this series. I spent so many hours playing civ 1, civ 2, civ 2 multiplayer, civ 3, ptw, c3c and I enjoyed the vast majority of them at relatively low difficulties. Now I plan to play CIV at higher levels, and it looks like it's going to be the most enjoyment I've ever had with the series.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Cort Haus
        To the Warlord players (Caligula & Chriseay) - congrats for outgrowing that level during this game. The power of the AU is that documenting your play and reading other players' accounts raises your game rapidly. I'm not quite ready to step up from Prince to Monarch, as I haven't mastered Civics Management yet, or learned the tech tree (especially in the later game) and Monarch looks like a very big leap in difficulty, but I'm a lot closer than I was before this course. Enjoy Noble level - I doubt you'll be there for long
        My guess is that in the next AU game, you'll see most of us raising one level... it's true: by playing a game in parts, reporting in between, you're forced to think on what you're doing.

        Be forced once, be forced twice... and the third time it comes natural and you wonder why you ever did it differently

        DeepO

        Comment


        • #34
          Jon's Dar AU 101 : Noble. Version 1.09

          Dar III The Classical Era (475 BC to 425 AD)

          475 BC: Started researching Monarchy for the Wine

          375 BC: The Parthagon built in a far away land. Founded Chicago

          350 BC: Tacitus declares that we have the second largest land area, behind the Mongles

          325 BC: Judism spreads to Philadelphia. Culture expands in Atlanta. The Great Lighthouse build in a far away land.

          300 BC: Stone connected to the trade network. Queue the Pryamids to start construction in New York as soon as the Temple completes there.

          250 BC: Construction of the Pryraimds begins in New York. Thanks to stone, scheldued to complete in 21 turns

          Trade with Salidin: Pristhood + Monotheism for Sailing + Archery

          225 BC: Start reseraching Code of Law. Two fold : Cheap Courthouses & also chance of founding Confucism

          Christianity founded in a distlant land. Salian switches to Theocracy. Salian adopts Christianity.

          200 BC: Pigs connected to the trade network. Seatle founded. Science lowered to 90%.

          125 BC: Wine connected to the trade network. Science lowered to 80%.

          100 BC: Arabs cancel the open borders agreement. We now have half a million people.

          75 BC: Borders of Philadelphia expand

          50 BC: Confucism founded in Barcelonia. Oops, I let Washington grow too big. Well, the temple is only three turns from completion.

          25 BC: Mongolonian city expands and retakes its first ring.

          50 AD: Drama started, as a prelude to Music.

          125 AD: Confucism spreads to Atlanta

          175 AD: Pryiamds are built in a far away location. (2 turns from completion in New York) Wheat connected to the trade network.

          225 AD: Increase science to 100%. Switch to no state relgion. Start anarchy to switch to Caste System + Pagism.
          Sell Monarchy for Math [Arabs] & Iron Working [Mongols].
          Open the boarders with all civs

          275 AD: Implement a 10% culture tax (more for happiness reasons than culture) and start reseraching Music

          300 AD: Borders of Boston expand

          325 AD: Mongols declare war on Egypt. Good thing I'd switched to no state religion.

          350 AD: Budism spreads to Seatle. Iron mine constructed. No need for a road to connect due to the river.

          425 AD: A Great Scientist is born in Waashington.
          Normally, I would build an academy with a Great Scientist, but considering I'll get Philosphacy, a religious tech right away, I go for that instead.

          You have entered the Midevil era.
          You have founded Taoism [in Boston]
          Use the free Taoism missonary in Chicago. Taoism has spread to Chicago. We now have a religion in every city.

          End of Dar III

          The American empire is in much better shape at the end of the Classical era.

          We went from #3 in score to #1. Mostly on the techs trades, particularly the selling the same tech twince to different players.

          We now have peaceful relations with our neighbors thanks to our shrewd policy of forgoing a state religion.

          And with Iron, we are starting to build Swords that will bring the Libyan barbarians into our empire.
          Attached Files
          1st C3DG Term 7 Science Advisor 1st C3DG Term 8 Domestic Minister
          Templar Science Minister
          AI: I sure wish Jon would hurry up and complete his turn, he's been at it for over 1,200,000 milliseconds now.

          Comment


          • #35
            Rhoth's DAR 3, Part 1 - Prince Difficulty

            After a decent game so far as detailed in [[[[[DAR 1]]]]], DAR 2 proves that I’m definitely still learning this game with some of the mistakes I made. I’ve been going for something of a “protected growth” strategy so far which meant Stonehenge wasn’t too high on my list. I also hadn’t aggressively pursued the religion portion of the tree until recently so the Oracle wasn’t even remotely a possibility. Plus at this point I hadn’t yet discovered any stone or marble to speed up the builds of either of those. My exploration attempts were seriously curtailed early with several of my first few warriors losing to barbarian animals and warriors. It was nice to have iron in my cities though as that meant I could start popping out a few swordsmen to take care of barbarian menaces and get going on exploring the continent again (and a sidenote: I never saw anything east of the desert east of my capitol. I hadn’t explored over there, and by the time I was ready to begin exploring that way Isabella had occupied the area and wouldn’t let me through.) But much later in the game I made her pay for that.

            1370bc – Judaism is discovered elsewhere in the world. This was a bit of a blow to me as I had just devoted time to three straight religion path techs and was just about to discover it myself. I decided to immediately switch off to animal husbandry so I could improve the pig tile in the newly founded city of Boston.

            For this city I had two initial goals with it, one to become my first big production city with the hills and forests (and iron tile) surrounding it. The pig tile and stealing the corn from Washington every so often would also play a big part in that. Second Boston was initially earmarked as a military production city. That would later be modified somewhat, but in the early going a barracks and military units were the order of the day. On that note I do really like the fact that it is easier to specialize cities in Civ4 because of the wealth of options available in tile improvement, specialists, etc. City specialization in Civ3 was good, but having a city entirely devoted to commerce wasn’t as viable in that game, nor was it easy to make captured cities a viable producer.

            1280bc – Meet Saladin. Interestingly enough he wasn’t one of the ones to discover an early religion despite being spiritual. I can only conjecture that he went down the meditation path and missed it and didn’t go on to the polytheism path until after someone else discovered it first (Elizabeth as it turned out who has inexplicably discovered three religions in this game).

            1160bc – Finish research on animal husbandry and move on to researching writing. I so far haven’t subscribed to a tech beeline like DeepO, etc. and have instead been going for techs that I either need or will be useful in a bit.

            1080bc – Somewhat of a mistake. I attack the barbarian Hittite city. Unfortunately I finally realized why some of the barb cities I had tried to capture in past games were destroyed instead. This was only a size 1 city. Just like Civ3 you destroy a city if it is only size 1 and has no culture, etc. :doh: To top it all off, it was a city I wanted too, as it was located between some stone and furs. It wouldn’t have been a truly great city, but with the furs and the fact that it was a coastal city it would have become a pretty good commerce city, as well as giving me multiple furs for trading purposes.
            Attached Files

            Comment


            • #36
              Rhoth's DAR 3, Part 2 - Prince Difficulty

              After that minor fiasco, things settled down a little for awhile. I’ve been running a pretty light military to this point in the game and continued that for a while, only building a few swordsmen for barb control. I finished research on writing and moved on to mathematics with the intent to get to construction for the bridge building and catapults. I also signed open borders treaties with everyone I knew to start them on the path to liking me. I wasn’t interested yet in a major war and I especially wanted to get Genghis Khan on my side since he was my closest neighbor that I knew about. Further I sent a unit to explore the area to the north. I still hadn’t sent anything to the east and that would come back to (sort of) bite me later on.

              1000bc – The start of a new millennium and I ring in the new year by meeting Bismarck of the Germans.

              800bc-775bc – In succession Stonehenge was completed in Spain (Barcelona to be exact which came in somewhat handy later) and the Oracle in England. I never even tried to build either one of them, though I had in past games gotten the Oracle most of the time. Not having any stone close to me made it too costly for Stonehenge, and because I had never researched priesthood I didn’t even have a chance to build the Oracle.

              I also finished up mathematics and was about to start construction when I realized that no one had researched code of laws yet, and I was only one other tech away from it. If the cards played out correctly I’d found a religion this time, so I switched over to finally start priesthood.

              750bc – Contact Hapshetsut. I didn’t know quite where she was at this point though.

              675bc – Another barb city had popped up close to me, and again it was a city that I could use as it was close to several wine sources and a cow. It wasn’t quite ideal as it didn’t have the corn or horse in its radius, but if I took it then it was a free city. I waited until it was size 2 and then sent a swordsman up to remove the barbarian occupation force from ‘my city’.
              Attached Files

              Comment


              • #37
                Rhoth's DAR 3, Part 3 - Prince Difficulty

                Uzbek was now mine, and research was proceeding apace toward Code of Laws when Genghis Khan called me up. He asked me to declare war on his enemy Hatshepsut. I had a vague idea where she was by the time (on the other side of Genghis) so I would be almost completely safe by declaring war to please him (barring a couple of exploratory warriors which were easily defeated by my small swordsmen force). I had already made several resource trades with Genghis so with the war my rating with my closest neighbor shot up to friendly. My standing with the rest of the AI nations didn’t drop either as it appeared that no one was overly friendly with Hatshepsut.

                550bc – Found Philadelphia to the NW of Washington. This would be another good city site with corn, cattle and my first clam resource. Surrounded by hills and forests, but situated on the coast for commerce, this city quickly became one of my better jack-of-all-trade cities behind Washington and Boston.

                Also you can see another barbarian city in a pleasing location to be able to eventually grab the gold I’d missed out on with New York (still had little culture there) as well as more wine and iron for trading. Later on in the game, through my abundance of wine and later fur resources I’ve been able to trade for many other resources I had been lacking which has made my empire able to grow to high population in many cities. The barb city wasn’t quite ready to take on yet though as it was growing slowly. Alas it wasn’t quite to be as a little later on Genghis sent a couple units and destroyed it while still size 1. My second free city was not to be, but I ended up settling in the same spot later on.
                Attached Files

                Comment


                • #38
                  Rhoth's DAR 3, Part 4 - Prince Difficulty

                  The cards played out the right way for me and I was the first to discover code of laws and Confucianism in 450bc, instead of missing it by a turn like I did with Judaism (sidenote: one of the first games I played was with Saladin and my first religion was Judaism. Ironic? ). Instead of being founded in the capital city, Confucianism was discovered in Boston, which prior to this had no culture at all. Suddenly it had some culture and was able to grow enough to envelop the iron resource and some of those forests.

                  Also, as I converted to Confucianism right off the bat, Isabella immediately called off our open borders agreement and I never got to explore to the direct east of Washington. I also became her “Enemy no. 1” which wasn’t really what I would have wished for as she was my only other close neighbor besides my buddy Genghis. My best friend and my worst enemy were my neighbors.

                  I haven’t really played much for getting out some missionaries to convert other nations, but Genghis ended up converting anyway through no help of mine, which has of course helped our relationship as well. In one of my early games I discovered the first five religions and spent a lot of resources building missionaries to spread all the faiths, and used great prophets to build the respective shrines. It reaped a lot of gold, but I think the expenditure of resources in building the missionaries outweighed the benefits. Of course I didn’t play that game through to the end so if I had it might have been worth it. But in any case I decided to only consciously try to convert my own cities so I could make use of the organized religion civic.

                  425bc – Build Atlanta to the SE of Washington, not a great location, but decent with the cow, my only horse so far, and a bunch of coastline for commerce. My nation is shaping up into a true commerce powerhouse, and because of my builder tendencies that has continued to where I am currently in the game as I write this (1600ad).

                  250bc – I finally decided to change my labor civics to slavery and rush libraries in both Washington and New York. Both needed it as they were both good commerce cities (all those early cottages on flood plains had grown nicely) and because they were both testing the limits of what my happiness and health could sustain. I wrote in Vel’s strategy thread today about some of the benefits of pop-rushing, but I forgot to include this one: I was essentially able to get two free libraries out of this particular round of pop-rushing as I dragged both cities out of their torpor from going above the happiness limit. As both cities had multiple flood plains, they grew fairly quickly again and it gave me a chance to secure a few more happiness-producing resources and buildings before they passed that happiness level again and the new citizens were unproductive.

                  200bc – Capture the barbarian city of Yue-Chi to the SW. This city grew up in the same spot as the last one I had destroyed before realizing the mechanics of capturing cities. This time I deliberately waited for it to grow and Genghis didn’t wander through my entire land to destroy it like the one to the NW. This city would be another good commerce city with its three fur resources and abundance of coast. The stone and sheep resources were also my first of those type.
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Rhoth's DAR 3, Part 5 - Prince Difficulty

                    After the capture of Yue-Chi I wanted to get my fur resources hooked up for the happiness boost as well as getting some lighthouses to make my coastal cities more productive. After finishing construction I made a short detour to hunting (yep, a first tier tech, which by now only took one turn to research) and sailing. As soon as I discovered sailing I immediately started Boston (my most productive coastal city at the time) on a lighthouse and soon the Great Lighthouse. Yep I’ve read the threads about the benefits of trade routes.

                    After sailing I move on to alphabet, which also gave me some of the early techs I was missing like archery, meditation and the remainder of monotheism when I did some tech trading. From alphabet I moved on to monarchy to be able to hook up my abundance of wines for happiness and later trading.

                    Not much happened for quite a few years other than research and finishing buildings such as libraries and lighthouses to improve my research and productivity.

                    300ad – Build Chicago on the spot where the barb city of Sarmatia was destroyed by Genghis Khan. Unfortunately it has no real food resources so won’t grow overly quickly, but it will be an excellent commerce city with the gold, wines, and coast.

                    450ad – Complete the Great Lighthouse in Boston. Yay. More trade routes and more gold, so I can ramp up my research even more. With 7 cities all built out for research and a good deal of commerce in all cities I was able to run 80-90% research without losing much gold (and able to recoup some of what was lost during the last turn or two of research by shifting the slider down).

                    My war with Hatshepsut ended immediately after Genghis Khan declared peace with her. Other than two roaming warriors early on she never once attacked me, and I’ve stayed peaceful with my neighbors so the need for a large standing military hadn’t arrived yet.

                    540ad – I was essentially blocked off from further peaceful expansion so the last personally founded city I built was Seattle to the south of Boston. This would never be a production city as it was almost all tundra, but it has a large amount of coastal tiles as well as fish and more fur resources so it’s another great commerce city in my growing collection of them. I don’t know if Nathan quite intended it to be that way (since we’re studying the financial trait), but every personally founded city of mine, as well as the two barb cities I captured are good commerce cities; Uzbek (former barb city) being the worst of the lot, but even it has three wine resources.

                    Also, this was the particular city I was talking about in my response to Arrian about pop-rushing in Vel’s strategy thread. With only the city tile and one tundra forest available for production, Seattle became my poster child for rushing a lighthouse, library etc. It only has improvements to make the commerce better, but that is all it needs.

                    580ad – And finally to end my long-winded DAR3, I finally discover civil service to enter the medieval age. As I mentioned before I never beelined to it, but was still the first in the game to discover the tech, etc. I haven’t truly read up on the concrete benefits of a beeline to civil service so possibly I could have done everything better up to this point with said beeline. But that’s the beauty of Civ4 as there are so many good strategies for tech research. You’re not limited to one “best” strategy like in Civ3 and I like that.

                    I unfortunately forgot to take a screenshot at this time and my next save was several turns from now, so you’ll have to wait until DAR 4 to see the state of my empire.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Vulture DAR 3 - Prince difficulty

                      Not very good notes for this one, but then, not a great deal happened.

                      My plan from the previous DAR was to get to Code of Laws as quickly as possible to found a religion. This plan went pear-shaped when Confucianism was founded 2 turns before I got to CoL. Continuing my quest to grab a religion, I then made a beeline for Theology to get Christianity.

                      City wise, I was mostly concerned with building up enough archers to man my culture wall, and build the culture to expand my cities to seal of the peninsula. Plan completed. I've now started on filling in the rest of the peninsula gradulaly, with my first priority being health and luxury bonuses at the moment. I'm doing pretty well in GNP, but am way down the list for manufacturing. I do have the most land area though.

                      Bismark called up a few times to demand techs. He is on the far side of the continent, so I told him to go away. I also refused a demand from the Arabs to stop trading with Egypt. While I was about 5 turns from Theology, dear old Isabella asked me to convert to Buddhism. This was tricky - by refusing all open borders offers and turning down a few extortion attempts, I've not been making and friends. Isabella does have a reputation for being very hostile to neighbors of differing religions, so by refusing her I'd be lining myself up for wars with her and Bismark in the not too distant future. Conversely, by converting, she becomes a good ally, and is between Germany and America, so hopefully can be persuaded to be a nice buffer zone for me. The downside is that when I do get my own religion sorted, it won't be much use to me. I figure I can live with this - I'll have time to spread christianity around and then convert when I don't need Spain as a buffer so much. So, Buddhism it is then.

                      Not long after that, I reach Theology, Christianity and the medieval period, in 150 AD.

                      My main efforts now will be focussed on expanding as fast as economically possible. I want to fill up my peninsula, and then I can get some open borders agreements to spread christianity and improve trade. Trying to nab the whole territory has proven a strange experience - particularly combined with my beelines for expensive techs. It's left me behind in many areas due to lack of develoment, but has hopefully given the potential to make a grand leap forward through the medieval period.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Prince Difficulty, 450 AD

                        Originally posted by nbarclay

                        In regard to my relations with the AIs, the one thing I truly hate about Civ IV is how demanding the AIs are. It’s just plain insane that I spend huge amounts of gold researching state-of-the-art technologies, and then AIs get irritated with me if I’m not willing to hand over the fruits of my enormous investment for free. It’s also highly irritating to be bombarded with demands from AIs to cancel deals with other AIs. I don’t expect to be able to be everyone’s best friend at once, but neither do I like being penalized for trying to remain neutral in regard to the AIs’ mutual dislikes of each other – especially when the AIs aren’t actually at war with each other.
                        Being asked to hand over an expensive, shiny new tech can be very annoying, but I remember how beelining to Republic in Civ 3 on Emperor would invariably meet with demands to hand it over, followed by instant trouble if my military wasn't able to back up my refusal. Also, it seems that one of the hard facts about Civ 4 is that if you try to be friends with everyone, you can end up being friends with no-one. It seems we have to pick a side and stick with it.

                        Apparantly you can use the f4 advisor from within a pop-up AI demand, so at least the diplomatic map can be surveyed before comitting to some unpopularity with someone. We can't avoid enemies, the best we can do is choose them. You converted to your religion early, ISTR Nathan, perhaps that didn't help.

                        Another thing, I think you mentioned these annoying demands right after saying how your military was a bit thin after expansion. I think nearly everyone was bit unprotected after expanding on this map, with varying outcomes - but it seems to me that those bullying AI demands come thicker and faster with a light military than a heavy one.

                        Nobody here built 3 archers per city during DAR1-2, because we all had bolder, loftier goals - beelines, wonders, staking out and sealing off a large territory. The AI, OTOH was probably building its cautious 3 archers per city, and only sending double-escorted settlers. While others have flashy Acadamies and more productive civics to power research, the AI has 15 archers - so maybe it is just trying to use them to get tech.

                        None of us so far has gone for a military-based start, and we've all had pressure from the AI. With this much land around to settle, and the high-food start, perhaps this is unsurprising, but would a Theseus or an UnOrthOdOx have gone for a more unit-heavy start and maybe allied with the Mongols? Maybe we'll find out sometime ...

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                        • #42
                          Re: Re: Prince Difficulty, 450 AD

                          Originally posted by Cort Haus


                          Being asked to hand over an expensive, shiny new tech can be very annoying, but I remember how beelining to Republic in Civ 3 on Emperor would invariably meet with demands to hand it over, followed by instant trouble if my military wasn't able to back up my refusal. Also, it seems that one of the hard facts about Civ 4 is that if you try to be friends with everyone, you can end up being friends with no-one. It seems we have to pick a side and stick with it.
                          That was pretty much what I ended up doing in my game as well. Isabella was annoyed with me the minute I switched to a Confucianism, while I entered a war with Hatshepsut to get in the good graces of Genghis Khan. It's funny the way it worked out but I chose to ally with Genghis and Bismarck, and to a lesser extent Saladin, while my relations with the three females stagnated. Allying with Genghis was calculated to keep him from attacking me early, while allying with Bismarck just kind of happened as we had items and tech to trade with each other. Later on in the game those two allies proved helpful as I pulled them into a war when Isabella tried to attack me.

                          Apparantly you can use the f4 advisor from within a pop-up AI demand, so at least the diplomatic map can be surveyed before comitting to some unpopularity with someone. We can't avoid enemies, the best we can do is choose them. You converted to your religion early, ISTR Nathan, perhaps that didn't help.
                          That's good to know. I hadn't tried that yet, but it's definitely helpful to survey the prior diplomacy.

                          Another thing, I think you mentioned these annoying demands right after saying how your military was a bit thin after expansion. I think nearly everyone was bit unprotected after expanding on this map, with varying outcomes - but it seems to me that those bullying AI demands come thicker and faster with a light military than a heavy one.

                          Nobody here built 3 archers per city during DAR1-2, because we all had bolder, loftier goals - beelines, wonders, staking out and sealing off a large territory. The AI, OTOH was probably building its cautious 3 archers per city, and only sending double-escorted settlers. While others have flashy Acadamies and more productive civics to power research, the AI has 15 archers - so maybe it is just trying to use them to get tech.

                          None of us so far has gone for a military-based start, and we've all had pressure from the AI. With this much land around to settle, and the high-food start, perhaps this is unsurprising, but would a Theseus or an UnOrthOdOx have gone for a more unit-heavy start and maybe allied with the Mongols? Maybe we'll find out sometime ...
                          Let's get them playing this game so we can find out.

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                          • #43
                            125

                            I took Bactrain easily. Another barb city east of the first, after Saladin razed the first. I send units to fight. It looks like Saladin will raze this one again though, as I only have chariots nearby and I don't really want to fight city archers with them. Swords on the way, but we'll see. I just realized that I never switched civics when I built the pyramids. I do this a LOT! Now, I wasn't running any specialists, so it wasn't that bad. But washington has had one unhappy citizen for a long time now. That sucks. I switch now.

                            50 AD
                            I get Metal Casting. New York, Washington, Boston, Atlanta, Philadelphia all start building FOrges. Code of Laws is next. I'm eyeing switching to Buddhism soon... it's the only religion I have (New York). But I dont yet have Monotheism or PHilosophy, Representation is keeping me happy.. so the only plus would be relations with Mongolia and Spain... but it'd also hurt me with everybody else. If I ever war for territory it'd be with Spain anyway... so I don't know how much of a concern it is. I'm building up military in cities near Isabella. Both she and Genghis have made demands to stop trading with Egypt and Arabia - which I won't do.

                            I'm in a good spot right now, with all of my land claimed according to the drawing I did on the map (that never happens), and settlers ready to fill in the west coast and push north toward Mongolia. New YOrk has built nothing but units for a long time now, and once its forge is done will either go back to units or build a Monastary to start spreading Budhism.. then go back to units. I am gearing up for war, though I don't think I'll need it. I want to get to the ocean after getting COL, to see who else is out there and geta feel for the land.

                            250 AD

                            Well... MOngolia declared war. I move units up towards those cities. I don't really expect to grab land... but I can pillage and promote some of my units. Maybe I'll makea grab for the city near Spain's little culture island... If I get a couple of Artists I might be able to make it flip.

                            I detour to Monotheism since nobody will trade it to me, and switch to Caste ssytem and Organized Religion. Next I'll switch to Budhism when I find a time. Once forges are in place I can outbuild Khan. I notice nobody has the Great Lighthouse yet... I've never had a city to sapre for a wonder... but maybe I can still snag it with stone and forges. That'd be nice.

                            375 AD
                            A couple of City Raider II (both later promoted to CR III) swords and some chariots make quick work of the two Mongol cities near me. Khan must regret this war... his only attack force was instantly dealt with, and now he's two cities down. I take a moment to map out what I want to do with the rest of my territory... and it's time to put the game down for a while.

                            A really rough and rocky start has set me up for a nice middle game. I still don't know what's out there in the world. But when Paper and the age of sail arrive (next!) I'll finally get a look at the wider world. Barbarians have so far been my chief plague, but their days are numbered (they snuck another city in, destined for razing as soon as I'm done with Mongolia).

                            SESSION II

                            475 BC
                            Peace with Mongolia. A few turns he wouldn't talk to me. He used his keshiks to snag a couple of workers.... stupid things. I wasn't thinking clearly about the all terrain movement. Two workers down... what a loss.

                            The two Mongolian cities I took start work on libraries. The southern one is in for a tough culture battle with Barcelona unless and until I can generate a great artist, and the one in the north has old Mongol culture to deal with.

                            Finish construction, so my next war will have cats. I start Compass. Forges still aren't online, so I'm just waiting to get that geared up. I got to build an Acadamey in Washington, which will be a big help.

                            760 AD
                            I enter the Medeival era with Machinery.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Re: Prince Difficulty, 450 AD

                              Originally posted by Cort Haus
                              Another thing, I think you mentioned these annoying demands right after saying how your military was a bit thin after expansion. I think nearly everyone was bit unprotected after expanding on this map, with varying outcomes - but it seems to me that those bullying AI demands come thicker and faster with a light military than a heavy one.
                              if the AI demands something (and thus doesn't ask a favour as your relations are already excellent), you will most of the time be weaker then him. If you are stronger, you can easily call his bluff. If you are weaker, it becomes a lot more trickier.

                              In this game I saw Isa attacking me right after asking for pottery. I knew what the result was going to be: I was on unfriendly terms, and because of my actions (pressing her borders back) I was leading the game to war. If I would have approved the trade, i could have bought myself a couple of years of peace.

                              Not all AIs will give such easy way out: some will simply attack you without giving you the option to pay tribute and live another day. These are the sneakier civs... Isa is no fun at all, but im my experience is not so sneaky. Louis OTOH...

                              Also, I've seen this a couple of times, and I'm starting to believe it is something coded, and not emergent behaviour. Right before going into a strong miliatary phase, the AI are much more likely to attack you. I nearly always get attacked while researching construction when I've got ivory. Same for gunpowder. Same for Cavs. as these are periods where my military is a bit weaker as well (as you try to get a granary in before building musketmen, for instance) you might think it's simply the 'we've got a weak neighbour so let's attack' rule playing. However, I've been in worse situation without trouble. But put me near gunpowder or cavs, and all hell breaks lose.

                              BTW: giving in to friendly requests can get you very far. I haven't seen it in the latest builds yet because of a different playstyle, but it wouldn't be the first time that after I give a tech because a friendly AI asks for it, I got contacted a couple of turns later, and get a free tech gift from that AI. Also, trading becomes a lot easier: you give a tech when they ask. You ask for something they would not be willing to trade to you (e.g. as the tech which you've got is exactly the same beaker cost as what you want, and you have no gold or other tech to make the deal work). It's a valid approach... not something to build your whole game on, but certainly a diplo strategy which has it's uses.

                              DeepO

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                              • #45
                                Re: Re: Re: Prince Difficulty, 450 AD

                                Originally posted by DeepO

                                BTW: giving in to friendly requests can get you very far. I haven't seen it in the latest builds yet because of a different playstyle, but it wouldn't be the first time that after I give a tech because a friendly AI asks for it, I got contacted a couple of turns later, and get a free tech gift from that AI.
                                DeepO
                                Gifts from the AI? Wow. I have been able to ask and get things in return after agreeing to a friendly demand, and in one game I noticed that by agreeing to the first demand (and not being too weak) there were no further demands from the same Civ for a long time, if ever.

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