Noble to Prince - unbearable

[Ming]

dude you've got to be the biggest moron here, i had a 10 tech lead but not a big unit tech lead, of course i got to tanks first and that made it easy but 2nd power was almost as big as me you f'ing donk, you dont listen to anything, do you hear voices in your head when reading others posts? do you see "dead" people? lol

You had a 10 tech lead, but you only had infantry 4 turns ahead of the AI... Again, you are doing something wrong if that's the case.

But once again you've proved your compulsiveness and twisted my words to support your own claims, you have little reading/writing capabilities huh? you dont know what half of my words mean or what they mean how i use them, sorry your old and losing your mind but as i said earlier and this is the last time i respond to you, READ THEN READ AGAIN THEN EVEN AFTER THAT READ THEM AGAIN, pay attention to the words i use and how i use them, if you must fill in the supposed gaps with your own assumptions then that shows us all how insecure and low a person you are, go on and make some crack jokes now, you dont matter so they wont either, but i could always use a good laugh .

I wouldn't talk about writing capabilities if I were you... As far as reading, just repeating what you told us. You clearly stated you only had a 4 turn advantage with infantry. As far as the rest of your insults, I think you are giving everybody else a good laugh.

i would say grow up and act your age but you would just say that of me so do what you will, in the end Ming no-one will care what you say, i mean that sincerely, same thing with most of what i said but for the people who actually read what i wrote and understand may further comment and offer advice or may actually use my experiences to better further their own game, sorry guys im not trying to be mean but idiots like Ming need some of their own medicine, people who dont pay attention make poor advisors, and as always just my opinion

You don't seem to be interested in advice, and again, it seems most of the more experienced players here disagree with you. And you claim you aren't trying to be mean, but you are the one throwing around personal insults left and right. I guess that's easier than trying to defend your strategies...

[Robert]

Stop the yelling people.
It would be a shame if this thread had to be closed.

[Ming]

Stop the yelling people.
It would be a shame if this thread had to be closed.

That's actually kind of funny considering what you allow in the OTF these days.

I hear you, and I will "try" to continue to attack the posts/strategy and not the poster. But it is kind of difficult when he posts crap like he did in post #133.

[Garth Vader]

Stop the yelling people.
It would be a shame if this thread had to be closed.

No it wouldn't. This thread is a train wreck.

[Theben]

Yeah, this thread has pretty much run its course. And I think the basic idea has been (reluctantly and with much resistance) hammered into Brandon's head.

[rah]

with no results,

[brandonjm8]

well i cant help if a certain someone must always be right and twists words to support his own claims and/or assumes too much, i cant help that, its not me doing it. i really dont see a point in responding to him anymore, he doesnt listen its kinda like talking to a wall or child. anyways i take what most of you have said to heart, the info about certain civ leaders has been a plus and listening to others stories so as to learn from them, but there will be some people that i wont mention feel the need to attack attack attack and refuse to listen and try to shove their ideas down your throat then they try to speak for everyone when only that persons saying it , if it was really a big deal then they wouldnt be the only ones saying it on and on and on and on. if certain people get confused by my posts they could just ask for more details instead of assuming what they want to fill in the gaps thats all.

im sorry if they close this thread, that wasnt my intent and ive learned to ignore one person from here.

but back to the topic at hand: im on my 4th prince game on bts thus far and this one is proving to most difficult, biggest reason is my starting locale. i may need to play a few more on prince before going up a level, on this game the AI (two of them on my continent) jumped to the huge tech lead over me, im now 2nd most advanced and 3rd strongest but the early years were tough and required some sacrifices that stifled my economy and i only got one ancient wonder , ive been away from the game too much or maybe just maybe their starting locales were that much better than my own. i'll get better the more challenging it gets and maybe i should next time put myself in a more worse starting locale next game and see how i do.

[brandonjm8]

Yeah, this thread has pretty much run its course. And I think the basic idea has been (reluctantly and with much resistance) hammered into Brandon's head.

from some of you yes i have taken what you said to heart, others opinions i dont respect.

[Ming]

Hmmmm... I've yet to see anybody here that actually agrees with you or respects your opinion.

But feel free to think you know everything based on your 4 games of BTS at Prince level.

[brandonjm8]

Hmmmm... I've yet to see anybody here that actually agrees with you or respects your opinion.

But feel free to think you know everything based on your 4 games of BTS at Prince level.

i played dozens at prince on vanilla, and dozen or so of monarch on vanilla prior to getting bts and ive played civ as long as you and the basic strategy "BASIC" is the same just more features. another showing that you dont pay attention to everything that has been said, which is why your opinions holds no merit , notice your the only attacker here? the others offer their POV respectfully unlike you. and you said youd stop attacking the posters, you cant even keep your own word. i broke my own just now but im just stating the obvious and yes i do read everything thats said and remember what has been said in this forum and others unlike you. you still think ive only played 4 games on prince for civ, if thats because you feel bts is that much different then maybe you should state that everytime you bring it up , i bet the majority of people who play civ4 vanilla and bts would say its more similar than different , and let the "so called others" your speaking for speak for themselves, if they dont maybe its just not that important to them as to you.

[Ming]

Enjoy the fantasy world you live in... If you bothered to understand what everybody was trying to tell you, you would actually see that nobody really agrees with your opinions. They have been speaking for themselves, but you don't seem to be listening

And yes, I think you have only played 4 games on prince with BTS, because that's what you keep telling us. So you are very limited in your experience with BTS.. that's a fact, which you even admit. If you think the only difference is just some more features, it's just further proof of how little experience you have with BTS

But again... keep thinking you are an "expert" with BTS because of your total Civ experience. Maybe when you play a few more games, you will see that there is always still more to learn.

[brandonjm8]

Enjoy the fantasy world you live in... If you bothered to understand what everybody was trying to tell you, you would actually see that nobody really agrees with your opinions. They have been speaking for themselves, but you don't seem to be listening

And yes, I think you have only played 4 games on prince with BTS, because that's what you keep telling us. So you are very limited in your experience with BTS.. that's a fact, which you even admit. If you think the only difference is just some more features, it's just further proof of how little experience you have with BTS

But again... keep thinking you are an "expert" with BTS because of your total Civ experience. Maybe when you play a few more games, you will see that there is always still more to learn.

keep attacking cuz thats all you can do, its fun for you

[Brael]

Guess I'm a bit late to this thread seeing when it was originally posted, but I read through it hoping for some ideas, and found some stuff to comment on since it was first posted. For reference, I usually play Marathon/Huge maps on Immortal and as Cyrus (Immortal units vs Immortal AI, such fun), I don't think of myself as some god to civ players or anything since I readily admit there's tons I don't know, but I'm not half bad... atleast at the single player aspect.

Anyways, some thoughts on various posts here, sorry in advance for the long post:

Game 1: 3 of my first 4 combat units (warriors, scout) get eaten by bears. Try again

Game 2: 3 of my first 4 combat units (warriors) get eaten by bears. Try again

Game 3: few bears since I wind up on mid-size continent with 6 other civs. Picked the wrong guy to be friends with, his relations didn't matter once he was vassalized and the dog pile came around turn 600. Try again.

This response is a bit late I'm sure, but try turning on raging barbs, even go down in difficulty if you need to. Just turn them on, if you don't know the cheap way to deal with them, which is making sentries to prevent them from spawning (they only spawn in areas that are fog to all players) they're like a rather offensive early war mongering civ that you can't conquer or have peace with. That will force you to figure out self defense (particularly counter attacks) or die. As far as losing scouts goes, it happens. I have a horrible record with them myself, I'm pretty much guaranteed to always have one scout. Even when I pop one from a hut, I'll lose a scout a turn or two later. Just do your best to keep them on defensive terrain (hills, forest, river, etc) and try to avoid fights with the two and three strength units.

If you can use it to selectively pick a couple of fights that it can win, you can get a 5 exp scout (takes a little luck but doable sometimes) which lets you get combat 1/medic for it. If that happens, take it back to your city, it's going to be useful for a long time. If not, you explored a bit learning all of the map you need to know for a bit, and then lost a 1 gold/turn drain on your economy. Losing Warriors is a bit more painful, but it's the same strategy, except it can generally win as long as you keep it at full health and stay away from bears. If you have to fight a bear, try and get it to chase you until you can either defend in a forest/jungle tile across a river, or on a forest/jungle hill. Or preferably, though it's rare... a forest/jungle title from across a river. Get woodsman 2 promotions for your scouting warriors as well, it helps scouting and will get your Warrior a better chance to live. Another bonus is once barbs spawn, it can stand a strong chance against warriors, and have about 90% odds (with a fortify bonus) against an archer. If you get it to woodsman 3 that's another medic promotion you can stack in with other medic units. Or, it can save you making a medic later.

Anyways, I'm getting side tracked from my point, but start using the terrain to your advantage. Barbs are even more psychotic and suicidal than Monty which makes them even more predictable, by taking advantage of the terrain you can not only pick where they spawn (if at all) but you can pick what they target. Use it to your advantage and you can get some valuable promotions that will give an advantage for a long time. The experience that you get as a player will help you with managing other civs dog piling you as well and like I said, the experience your units get too.

One thing about army buildup I'm kinda struggling with is producing enough units. Since I'm always playing Johnny Too Late when its crunch time, I've developed a habit of pumping out military units most of the game. To not get sidetracked from this task I'm specializing my cities heavily, so that high production cities will be equipped with Barracks and almost exclusively build military units.

If you're building too many units, one option would be once your quota's are filled just pump out siege units. You can never have enough of them. Another thing would be that perhaps you're focusing too many cities on unit production, or possibly it's the games way of telling you it's time to attack someone. That's three options, though the first leads to the third, so it's really two solutions.

am i a pro civ player, yes, with that said and my huge winning percentage means i must be doing something right, and just because i play on prince while you may play higher doesnt necessarily mean much

I don't mean to add to the flames but, with this type of attitude you can't be a pro civ player. If you were, you would be open to others suggestions rather than assuming everything you do is right. Civ 4 is built all around having a variety of ways to win. It's also a much different game as difficulty levels change as the tolerances for mistakes become smaller and smaller, and I don't mean this to say "You don't play XXX your opinions don't matter" as not every civ player wants to or should want to be playing a game that requires intense thinking, adhering to a strategy, and insane micromanagement. You may enjoy playing the way you do, and you may be able to win at it every time but all that means is you're able to pull your strategy off against that level of AI.

From the rest of your post, you say other AI's get bigger than you. On Prince someone that understands the mechanics of the game well enough should be able to expand faster than the AI (like a pro player you're claiming to be), so that right there is an admission of you having things to learn. If you're surviving a lot of attacks and others encroaching on your territory, it means you probably aren't playing up the diplomacy aspect of the game which is a whole metagame in and of itself that happens to be a route to victory.

with that said alot of people will agree with me a strong defense is necessary with whatever promos you deem necessary

I'm going to say it a few times, but if you're waging a defensive war, the absolute best defense is a strong offense. If you have horses (or later, can make gunships) you can outmaneuver anything. Attack and retreat, the enemy can't counter attack if you don't end the turn next to them, and with roads that should be simple. Fast units also destroy enemy siege. City defense can work, but a dedicated attack won't be deterred, only slowed down. And while they're slowed down, it gives you plenty of time to lose terrain improvements. Remember, a city defender is pretty much confined to your city, all the land around you is left wide open.

One game back in the warlords era (I think, maybe it was BTS though) sticks out to me as the pinnacle of my warring career, it was my first game at whatever difficulty setting I was playing and I was Cyrus. To my south and east were ocean, to my west was Darius (persia vs persia!), to my north was Washington, and to my northeast, almost cut off by washingtons territory, but not completely was Pacal. Needless to say, I was enemies of all three. I didn't start a single war that game, yet I was in almost constant battle. It started off with Washington and him occasionally bribing Pacal. Darius would make demands, and depending on the circumstances I would either give in or tell him to go pound sand which would lead to another war. Then, using a bit of diplomacy I would speak to Washington and give his captured city back for peace. Eventually Washington would declare again, and I would do the same to Darius. This went back and forth all game with Washington permanently losing a couple of cities, and Darius effectively doing nothing but giving Washington time to rebuild. I managed to avoid losing a single native city in that game though like I said, I didn't hesitate to use captured cities as bargaining chips in the diplomacy aspect. The moment I faced a two front war it was peace time, or failing that a troop surge, stolen city (that I wouldn't be able to hold), and then peace time using that city. When all was said and done, I was at war with Washington for about 75% of the game (well, until I wiped him out) and Darius for 20% (until he was wiped out), with very little peace.

The reason I bring this up, is that I wasn't the aggressor and, I won while being severely outteched, and I don't mean one grade of unit behind. I mean the type of out teching that would occur (but reversed) if I were playing settler, going up against a single AI with no tech trading turned on. At the most desperate moment I was using IMMORTALS to take out tanks. Now granted, I was able to build slightly better than those wonderful life saving mounted guys, but I still had them around, and more importantly... was able to utilize them. My standard tank killers were catapults and horse archers, later using upgrades of those. The turning point of that war was when they hit the modern era while I hit airships and anti tanks (actually, I had airships before the AI had sams for awhile, I utterly destroyed them for a bit because hammers were no longer going to replacing siege... Washington went from going back and forth in one of his 25 cities to losing 5 before those sams made us even again)

If I stuck to CG units in my cities I would have barricaded myself, and then had those barricades smashed down, resulting in me losing the game. Instead I not only held my own, but TOOK territory, using those defenders, which were really counter attacks. That said, I'm guilty of giving my normal city guys CG all the time, and this thread made me realize there's a better way to do it (drill) but the main lessons of my story, and something I got the pleasure of learning first hand...

• CG defenders are only capable of defending a city. They can't protect your resources or your economy.
• Attack units can counter attack anywhere.
• Siege is the great equalizer. The hammer:return ratio gets better as your siege gets stronger, but even if you spend 1000 hammers for 20 catapults to break a stack of 9 rifles, you're just about even in production. If the AI out produces you 3:1, a stack of 27 rifles (the AI at the time this fight occurred would do large stacks like this) would also leave you equal. If you take out 40-50 units in a stack... you win. And you do so without as much war weariness, plus get more promoted units.
• Mounted units are godly, the next best equalizer. Put your mounted units 2 tiles from an enemy stack, and attack. If you're across roads, it attacks with 1.67 moves left. After the attack it still has .67. Use that to retreat and get it to a healing station. Only commando promoted units can catch it. A failed counter attack can leave a lot of your units vulnerable, mounted units however are hit and run.
• Withdrawl is amazing when fighting stronger opponents. If you only have a 10% chance of success with an unpromoted Knight, train it with a Barracks and Stable. That 5 exp is flanking 1 and 2. It now has a 30% chance to withdraw giving it a 10% chance to win and an overall 37% chance to live. Combat promotions won't do that. If you can keep current enough, you can flank attack with your mounted units too. If you're against cannons, get Cuirassiears, with flanking 2 they have a minimum 45% chance to survive any battle. 20 of them can stop 100 cannons.
• This is related to above, but know your promotions. Every one of them is situational. Sticking to one promotion, while effective up to a certain point in AI boosts/player penalties is inefficient play. Think of what you could do in your current games if you got the same or better wartime results as now, with half the units required.

defensive units are good at keeping your offensive units alive when damaged, unlike most offensive units defensive ones get terrain defense bonuses.

I wanted to avoid commenting on this one but I can't pass it up because this is a great example of how you've closed yourself off to there being any better possibilities. You say defensive units keep your offensive units alive when damaged. Lets flip that around.

When you're attacked, the unit with the best defensive odds is picked to defend. A defensive unit is going to likely be undamaged, while offensive units are potentially damaged. A defensive unit can have terrain bonuses. A defensive unit can have fortify bonuses (so can some offensive, but I think you see where I'm going). Your medic is going to defend BEFORE your offensive units, losing your medics cripples you bad.

The offensive unit that doesn't get terrain bonuses, such as a Knight, can be trained to medic right away (barracks+stable=2 promotions, no civics, traits, or GG's required), and thanks to not receiving defensive bonuses is going to be one of the last units attacked. Not only that, but you can select it to not attack with your other offensive units so it doesn't die there either. Oh and being two move means it can pillage to pay for itself+other units while keeping up with your army.

your an idiot, i mean that sincerely. they invaded with a weak force yes but the real invasion might've been coming so building ones army makes sense IN CASE THE REAL INVASION came, so what it didnt, can you read the future?

Part of a good strategy is to predict what the AI is going to do. There's a saying "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". Most real life things don't apply to computer games (including civ sadly... though I have done term papers relating civ to real life scenarios, those are always entertaining) but this one does. What if you were exploring and figured out who had what resources, and then what they had in their trade advisor? You could figure out if resource trades were going on. If so, you can figure out who's getting what, how to block it (if possible, stopping an intercontinental iron trade for example in the era of Galleons, Frigates, Ships of the Line, Ironclads, and land units would be crippling, to say the least), and what type of counter you need. You could also learn what civs are more likely to fight you, and even butter up another nearby civ so if an inevitable attack is coming you have an ally.

It's a shame that Blakes RBEpic games aren't still hosted. When I got some of my friends into civ I made each of them read Rome vs the Barbarians and the duel of him vs Alexander. Those two games are a better instruction manual on the game, than the book plus tutorial video combined. For that matter, Rome vs the Barbarians took me up two difficulty levels alone. It really is too bad they're gone. You could learn a lot from them.

I have to agree... the only time I have units with the CG promotion is if they get it for free from being protective. It's one of the most worthless promotions there is.

You know, despite my thoughts on defense I've never really thought of this for my units, probably because I have a problem with underrating drill since the first couple levels aren't that great. Yay for learning something, thanks.

dude you've got to be the biggest moron here, i had a 10 tech lead but not a big unit tech lead, of course i got to tanks first and that made it easy but 2nd power was almost as big as me you f'ing donk, you dont listen to anything, do you hear voices in your head when reading others posts? do you see "dead" people? lol

The AI isn't a person, don't treat it like one. All AI's fight with some variation of this pattern. They mass up a large number of units, send them, then start sending new units as they're made, sometimes in small groups. It also holds back and keeps defenders in cities it shouldn't. Unless you're doing the same thing, equal power on the graph isn't equal power in reality, because the AI has predictable responses that you can counter but the AI can't predict an unpredictable human. Lets say the AI is attacking with Cavalry, better versions of the AI will see this and adjust to Grenadiers (not the case in 3.01 which I'm playing now since I just reinstalled it... 3.19 plus the better AI mod is different), but you can know the AI will behave this way in advance and make Cavalry (or another Grenadier killer). Essentially, like any program an AI is event driven, you can manipulate those events.

i would say grow up and act your age but you would just say that of me so do what you will, in the end Ming no-one will care what you say

Mings post taught me something so I care. I guess I'm no one though.

[brandonjm8]

Originally Posted by brandonjm8 View Post
am i a pro civ player, yes, with that said and my huge winning percentage means i must be doing something right, and just because i play on prince while you may play higher doesnt necessarily mean much.

I don't mean to add to the flames but, with this type of attitude you can't be a pro civ player. If you were, you would be open to others suggestions rather than assuming everything you do is right. Civ 4 is built all around having a variety of ways to win. It's also a much different game as difficulty levels change as the tolerances for mistakes become smaller and smaller, and I don't mean this to say "You don't play XXX your opinions don't matter" as not every civ player wants to or should want to be playing a game that requires intense thinking, adhering to a strategy, and insane micromanagement. You may enjoy playing the way you do, and you may be able to win at it every time but all that means is you're able to pull your strategy off against that level of AI.

ive yet to lose on bts and vanilla, i played many many games on monarch and prince for vanilla and won every time, ive won all noble games and the 3 prince games thus far for bts, to be honest ive only lost one game from the whole civ series, that was back on civ2 so apparently im good enough so i must be a pro, yes theres more for me to learn but the fact remains i have an insane winning % so me calling myself a pro "not the best" is true. and i dont and never said everything i do was or is the right thing to do, i only said "it works best for me", go ahead and re-read all of my posts, never will you see i said im better than any particular player or all players. and so you understand how my games work out i only play huge or gigantic maps with continents, early conquest is never an option only mid to late game can you but sometimes the AI has gotten too big to destroy so some of my wins come from vassalizing them for the domination victory, if i start with a civ or two i try to either make them my allies early or if i can kill them, til astronomy cant do anything more and by then the other AI's are big enough to need to build alot more units unless you just want to vassalize them. my strategies change from game to game, that "awesome D" a certain someone keeps bringing up was only for one game and the guy doesnt want to recognize it and assumes i do it every game, i hope you listen and believe what i say, i mean what i say i have no reason to lie, why lie? i dont care what others say or think, i just post here to learn and to help others.

From the rest of your post, you say other AI's get bigger than you. On Prince someone that understands the mechanics of the game well enough should be able to expand faster than the AI (like a pro player you're claiming to be), so that right there is an admission of you having things to learn. If you're surviving a lot of attacks and others encroaching on your territory, it means you probably aren't playing up the diplomacy aspect of the game which is a whole metagame in and of itself that happens to be a route to victory.

i said they tend to get bigger early during the ancient era, then i surpass them quickly and take the huge advantage since i dont kill my science early, once i hit 40-50% science time to slow down and let my economy get a foot hold so the next wave can come while keeping pace or surpassing with techs. only this game has most of the other AI's still have more cities and probably will for awhile for the simple fact this is the worst starting locale for me to date for civ4, i had the smallest plot of land to work with and with my cap not in the middle or near it my maintanence(?) costs kept me from keeping up early on, not to mention the fact one of the AI's is blocking my progress and the big early power the japs started a war with me early which further stifled my economy since i had to build a good 35 units to keep them from attacking my cities. now we are in the mid part of the game, im 2nd in techs and 2nd in power too while having the 3rd lowest amount of cities, they are all productive (well the vast majority of them are) and i now have two SoD's protecting me so im cruising now, got two colonies started and got 4th power to sign a D pact with me so alls good but 1st in tech and cities has an awful lot of cities, he had the best starting locale, right in the middle with plenty of room in all directions, bastard . (our continent is huge but my area is a peninsula so that kinda sucked but im keeping up with my 26 cities (since most were in desireable locales) but that other guy has over 50 already (im glad hes not strong but strong enough with two allies so i cant quite take some from him but will be shortly once i get rifleman and cavalry .

I'm going to say it a few times, but if you're waging a defensive war, the absolute best defense is a strong offense. If you have horses (or later, can make gunships) you can outmaneuver anything. Attack and retreat, the enemy can't counter attack if you don't end the turn next to them, and with roads that should be simple. Fast units also destroy enemy siege. City defense can work, but a dedicated attack won't be deterred, only slowed down. And while they're slowed down, it gives you plenty of time to lose terrain improvements. Remember, a city defender is pretty much confined to your city, all the land around you is left wide open.

as said before (many times actually) that was a one game deal, plus i built alot of O units too, 37 knights and siege. i was weak then and the invader was 2nd in power so i thought some extra CG D units would be needed assuming hed send his armies over but alas he never did so i later used them in two other wars later on and my power skyrocketed to #1 . if i figure out whos and what they are attacking with ect i build accordingly otherwise i'll balance my units out to repel anything, i only give CG promos to units that will be staying in cities or forts otherwise they get what they need and i use drill promos for D units so they make good attackers too if needed along with my balanced unit and promo wise SoD's. i only let them attack a city if i cant do anything about it otherwise i meet them prior and we fight there unless they somehow invade from the seas then my SoD will be fighting them on my own land but that sometimes happens to us all.

I wanted to avoid commenting on this one but I can't pass it up because this is a great example of how you've closed yourself off to there being any better possibilities. You say defensive units keep your offensive units alive when damaged. Lets flip that around.

yes, with me having sufficient D units my attackers wont die if they get to counter attack, for example: the first wave from the japs my 35 macemen/cross-n-longbows/axe-n-spearmen defeated all of their 39 units with me only losing 2 or 3 and getting a GG and stronger units outta it, then the 2nd wave: my stack of 59 camel archers/macemen/pikemen/cross-n-longbowmen killed their stack of 50+ of samurais and others with only losing 10 units (most of which came from the first attackers, pretty much all my cats, had 8 of them at that time) and got another GG and exp, so having good D units to take the brunt when fighting in the open field will keep your strong attackers alive (like mounted units as you said), i wasnt able to direct them away from forest so i let them attack first while i fortified them unleashed my own. (lost 1 while defending, since their 2nd wave came in two groups and the first was only like 10 or so)

When you're attacked, the unit with the best defensive odds is picked to defend. A defensive unit is going to likely be undamaged, while offensive units are potentially damaged. A defensive unit can have terrain bonuses. A defensive unit can have fortify bonuses (so can some offensive, but I think you see where I'm going). Your medic is going to defend BEFORE your offensive units, losing your medics cripples you bad.

yep i agree, had a medic in my group too. D units have their uses.

Part of a good strategy is to predict what the AI is going to do. There's a saying "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". Most real life things don't apply to computer games (including civ sadly... though I have done term papers relating civ to real life scenarios, those are always entertaining) but this one does. What if you were exploring and figured out who had what resources, and then what they had in their trade advisor? You could figure out if resource trades were going on. If so, you can figure out who's getting what, how to block it (if possible, stopping an intercontinental iron trade for example in the era of Galleons, Frigates, Ships of the Line, Ironclads, and land units would be crippling, to say the least), and what type of counter you need. You could also learn what civs are more likely to fight you, and even butter up another nearby civ so if an inevitable attack is coming you have an ally.

yep, i agree. but i dont play with spys yet on bts so my scouting is limited but with what i know is how and what i build and do.

You know, despite my thoughts on defense I've never really thought of this for my units, probably because I have a problem with underrating drill since the first couple levels aren't that great. Yay for learning something, thanks.

yep, drill is awesome, for the most part you get to attack first and they make good defending units for cities while also getting to attack first most of the time should you have them attack.

The AI isn't a person, don't treat it like one. All AI's fight with some variation of this pattern.

well duh , kill ratios are always in my favor so i guess i know something right?

Mings post taught me something so I care. I guess I'm no one though.

well ming has a tendency to not read every word i say and/or how i use my words, if he took the time to read them more carefully and/or just asked for more clarification from me all of this couldve been avoided, no matter what i say his minds already made up so what can i do. when he responds with quotes from my posts he neglects to add all of what i said and zeros in what he needs to support his ideas/claims. i learn from everyone here, its nice to have but it be nice if some people could either agree to disagree or keep their insults to themselves and keep their word when they say "i wont attack the poster anymore" oh well, cant make a person keep their word, guess its lost its meaning to some.

quick question, why havent you updated to 3.19 for bts yet? im just curious.

[Brael]

ive yet to lose on bts and vanilla, i played many many games on monarch and prince for vanilla and won every time, ive won all noble games and the 3 prince games thus far for bts, to be honest ive only lost one game from the whole civ series, that was back on civ2 so apparently im good enough so i must be a pro, yes theres more for me to learn but the fact remains i have an insane winning % so me calling myself a pro "not the best" is true.

But couldn't you also say that never losing means you haven't sufficiently challenged yourself? Unless you run across a challenge, how are you going to know if you're able to come up with a sufficient strategy to beat it?

yes, with me having sufficient D units my attackers wont die if they get to counter attack, for example: the first wave from the japs my 35 macemen/cross-n-longbows/axe-n-spearmen defeated all of their 39 units with me only losing 2 or 3 and getting a GG and stronger units outta it, then the 2nd wave: my stack of 59 camel archers/macemen/pikemen/cross-n-longbowmen killed their stack of 50+ of samurais and others with only losing 10 units (most of which came from the first attackers, pretty much all my cats, had 8 of them at that time) and got another GG and exp, so having good D units to take the brunt when fighting in the open field will keep your strong attackers alive (like mounted units as you said), i wasnt able to direct them away from forest so i let them attack first while i fortified them unleashed my own. (lost 1 while defending, since their 2nd wave came in two groups and the first was only like 10 or so)

Samurai are just macemen with 2-3 first strikes. They're quite good going up against other maces, or pikes, or even longbows but a camel archer is a resourceless knight that happens to bypass a samurai's ability, and has a natural withdrawl chance of 15%. They're the natural predator to a samurai so of course they'll win, and using them is smart. I'm not sure that's a fair comparison though, AI's are biased towards their UU when they can build it. Anyone with knights, or especially Saladin is going to completely and utterly dominate Tokugawa during that period. Following that, his mercantilism habit pretty much ensures he can't possibly be a threat to anyone past the middle ages.

yep, i agree. but i dont play with spys yet on bts so my scouting is limited but with what i know is how and what i build and do.

I don't use the espionage system, but I do use spies. They're ok as scouts (missionaries with open borders are better, but you can't always do that). I wasn't referring to spies though. AI personality, resources, sentry units on the border, knowing the diplomatic state with a civ, what techs a civ has... you can usually read them pretty well. If you know the civ you can read it like an open book without stepping foot in their territory. Monty is a widely known one here, just about everyone knows that he WILL attack you. You can be at friendly in the modern era while monty has longbows and territory that's only 5% of what you have. He will still attack.

well duh , kill ratios are always in my favor so i guess i know something right?

Kill ratios are almost always in the players favor, where things get tricky is production ratios. If you're outproduced by 50%, against an equal type of unit you need to kill 3 units for every 2 you lose, otherwise you're losing the war. That's what long wars come down to. If you're winning in that ratio you'll eventually win the war, if you're losing you'll eventually lose to attrition. The further above or below that mark you are the quicker it will be. Next game try something different, you're used to Prince, go up a couple levels and play on Emperor for a couple of games. See if you learn anything about your strategies, even if you don't find them as fun. You can always go back down to Prince afterwards and you'll probably do even better which opens new possibilities for you to do.

well ming has a tendency to not read every word i say and/or how i use my words, if he took the time to read them more carefully and/or just asked for more clarification from me all of this couldve been avoided, no matter what i say his minds already made up so what can i do.

No offense but, reading what you type is rather difficult. Punctuation is worthless without other grammar accompanying it.

Here's a random example from a board I run (not civ related) tell me which is easier to read:

Spoiler:

for casual players the ability to solo well is very important unless you have a wife or buddy or kids who will go where you want when you want to get the gear you want that others may think sucks. the reason is that there is great equipment that goes uncamped all the time. in addition if you play 1 hour a night you cant tolerate the 45 min that many groups take to get going nor the backlash you get when you leave a group after 15 min of play. in order to catch your friends you will need to get some of that great but undervalued equipment while also maintaining a consistent exp flow grouping is fine but you need to be able to go places that no one else wants to go and perhaps hang out there for days to get that one drop to fill your biggest hole my fabled earring is soloable far below the level that it becomes obsolete i am still wearing it 6 levels above when I soloed it. being able to solo and survive in a zone far above where you should be allows you to be where great drops are and often get what is rotting. often there are a few low level mobs in a zone intended to be greens but are solid blue to you that you can solo while waiting for uber group to decide that they cant use uber sk only item or uber item they have already gotten 12 times before. i got a fabled neck this way in cobalt scar because someone was farming tailoring supplies and had gotten the item 5-6 times already. the rune 3 aug currently on many of your magelos is usable by 60 and is the type of item that i may go and camp for days or go daily to check if there is a situation that can lead to my getting it even though i cant tank any of the mobs in that zone and would have difficultly finding a group there although after new expansions its amazing where you can go if you are not afraid of death.

Spoiler:

For casual players the ability to solo well is very important unless you have a wife or buddy or kids who will go where you want when you want to get the gear you want (that others may think sucks). The reason is that there is GREAT equipment that goes uncamped all the time. In addition if you play 1 hour a night you can't tolerate the 45 min that many groups take to get going, nor the backlash you get when you leave a group after 15 min of play. In order to catch your friends you will need to get some of that great but undervalued equipment while also maintaining a consistent exp flow. Grouping is fine but you need to be able to go places that no one else wants to go and perhaps hang out there for days to get that one drop to fill your biggest hole. My fabled earring is soloable far below the level that it becomes obsolete, I am still wearing it 6 levels above when I soloed it.

Being able to solo and survive in a zone far above where you should be allows you to be where great drops are and often get what is rotting. Often there are a few low level mobs in a zone intended to be greens (but are solid blue to you) that you can solo while waiting for uber group to decide that they can't use uber sk only item or uber item they have already gotten 12 times before. I got a fabled neck this way in cobalt scar because someone was farming tailoring supplies and had gotten the item 5-6 times already. The rune 3 aug currently on many of your magelo's is usable by 60 and is the type of item that I may go and camp for days or go daily to check if there is a situation that can lead to my getting it even though I can't tank any of the mobs in that zone and would have difficultly finding a group there (although after new expansions its amazing where you can go if you are not afraid of death).

See the difference?

quick question, why havent you updated to 3.19 for bts yet? im just curious.

Because I just reinstalled civ after a long break and forgot to patch. I didn't even think about it until I went to the boards again and saw a thread on a patch. Once my current game is done I'll update.