Noble to Prince - unbearable

[rah]

I also agree, I get a unit attacked in a city maybe once every 5 games. The only reason I use it is to essentially mark a unit as destined for a city and eternal garrison duty.

Yeah, the only time I that I encourage my cities to be attacked is usually when monty or tok are my neighbor and they don't have cats yet. Their pathetic attempts to attack cities with a decent culture defense along with a few good defenders is hilarious. But any stack that includes siege units is not allowed that pleasure.

[Ming]

i tend to build extra D units for future uses once ive built all available infrastructure,

One might argue that that's the best time to be building up your SOD instead of concentrating on EXTRA D units. Also, if you really have nothing else to build, converting citys to "research" is a great way to stay ahead of the AI so that your tech advantage is even greater.

note that my "D" units are given promos that can be used for offense too like drill and shock ect,

That's different than what you earlier stated "i agree, for the most part much of my infantry had CG promos" Unless you plan on having your cities attacked, the CG promotion is pretty much worthless.

as ive already stated having D units and enough of them (not alot but enough) will become very useful when say conquering lands so you can have a couple for defense while your O SoD continues its advancement,

You seem to be backing off you "awesome defense" comments when you now say "not alot but enough", but let's look at one of your earlier statements...

and before you start thinking "oh his science is too high, he must be weak" come get some lol, i have over 200 infantry, 40 cavalry, 18 artillery, 50+ destroyers, 8 battleships with more coming, 18 airships, 12 fighters with more coming, 10 bombers with more coming. on that little subcontinent i spoke of on one of my earlier posts my army numbers close to 60 for my SoD, the bad thing is now he has sam's and infantry too so im gonna need alot more tanks, got 4 so far with more coming, i aint weak, come try to break my defenses muah hahahahahaha.

So not including ships or air support, you have 258 units, but only 60 units for your SOD. That seems for more defense than "not alot but enough"... and while you were sitting around building that awesome defense when you had the tech lead with infantry, even you note that you allowed your enemy to get sams and infantry... In other words, you blew your opportunity to attack before the enemy had sams and infantry.

you may say im not open to your ideas but the same holds true of you too, ive listed many uses for "D" units yet you've failed to recognize the uses and possibilities of having an adequate defense while having an offense,

Let's see... the many "uses" of D that you keep talking about...
Defending your cities.
Most experienced players here talk about how the best defense is not to let the enemy actually attack your cities. Sure, we all "defend" our cities, and balance the needs of offense vs defense, but the question seems to be, What is adequate" The examples you keep pointing too would indicate that your idea of "adequate" is simply overkill.

Staying ahead on the power graph so people think you are strong and won't attack...
The power graph doesn't see the difference between offensive and defensive units. If you have a large army, you will be storg on the power graph. You're ratio of 198 defending units vs 60 units for your SOD is exactly the point most of us are trying to make... too much defense and not enough offense.

Defending cities that you take so that you SOD can continue on...
The biggest problem with most attacks is running our of units... if you are wasting far too many units on defense, just so you can leave them behind to defend your new territory, one might argue that you aren't attacking properly. You only need to seriously defend new cities that are exposed. If you have planned your attack right, your "front' will be limited, and you will only be exposing a few cities at any given time.

So again... You have not provided a compelling argument on why such an awesome defense is needed.

oh well, as far as you playing higher levels that means nothing, level of difficulty only effects how quick the AI discover techs and build stuff not actual planning on their part,

Nothing????? The difference in tech rates by the AI is EVERYTHING. At the lower levels, you have far larger windows of time to take advantage of your military tech advantage. If done properly at the lower levels, you have huge windows of time to take advantage of your opponents. At the higher levels, those windows are far smaller. With more limited windows, you have to move and attack quickly, not waste your time building a ton of defensive units. Even at the level you are playing at, you stated what a bummer it was that you allowed the AI to build sams and infantry, so that now you needed tanks. It's even worse at the higher levels.

ive had difficult games on noble for the simple fact they used very good promos and good placement, to be honest my noble games averaged a higher difficulty or took me longer to win then prince so far, yeah ive only played 3 prince games for bts but many many more for vanilla,

You really can't compare vanilla and BTS... they are almost entirely different games. So basing your opinion on simply 3 prince games is probably not what some would call "stastically significant"

like ive already said just because maybe some of your "D" units never see combat doesnt mean they were wasted, i quote "WHAT IF", choices and options are very nice to have and like they say "its better to have a gun and not use it then to need it and not have it."

From your examples, it seems like most of your "D" units will never see combat. You seem to be more focused on "What IF' than on the more important "What IS".

Really... nobody is arguing that you don't need a defense. It just seems like you are taking your defense to wasteful levels. As you claim, it works for you. But maybe when you have played more games, and try some harder levels, you will start seeing what everybody else has been trying to tell you.

[rah]

Yeah, build a decent SOD, then convert to cash once your Infrastructure is built so you can stockpile cash and up you science slider and if your slider is already high enough, research. Then when you finish those key military techs like steel or infantry, you can immediately upgrade your units and leverage your tech advantage to the maximum. Your defensive needs will be minimized.

Obviously don't build the SOD so early that your upgrade costs are ridiculous.
i.e. trebs to cannons, not cats to cannons.

[Boracks]

Obviously don't build the SOD so early that your upgrade costs are ridiculous.
i.e. trebs to cannons, not cats to cannons.

Which is why I've had games where I haven't actually built any cats. Unless a war is immanent, don't built the units that are silly to upgrade (read: too expensive).

[Ming]

If I have a neighbor, I will build cats. Cats are one of those "time to got to war" units. You can usually beat the AI to construction, and a stack of cats early in the game is pretty unbeatable. Sure, once the AI has longbowman, cats lose their effectiveness... but it's always good to have some around. They are better than tribs at taking out enemy SOD's. On the other hand, I always consider cats to be the most disposable of units. They are meant to die, and they will indeed never be upgraded unless in a rare situation where I have the money and they are the only thing that stands between death and survival.

[wodan11]

You know those defensive O units we've been talking about? Cats are good for those. Until you get cannons.

[brandonjm8]

Originally Posted by brandonjm8 View Post
i tend to build extra D units for future uses once ive built all available infrastructure,

One might argue that that's the best time to be building up your SOD instead of concentrating on EXTRA D units. Also, if you really have nothing else to build, converting citys to "research" is a great way to stay ahead of the AI so that your tech advantage is even greater.

i didnt say "i only build D units, did i?" didnt think so, i build O units too, ive stated this from the very start. and yes when my power is enough compared to others or i feel i have enough i switch to research/wealth.

from brandonjm8, note that my "D" units are given promos that can be used for offense too like drill and shock ect,

That's different than what you earlier stated "i agree, for the most part much of my infantry had CG promos" Unless you plan on having your cities attacked, the CG promotion is pretty much worthless.

key word i said was "most" not all, the units that CG promo that one game was when i was invaded and assumed alot more invaders were coming and i wanted to fortify my coastal cities on that side along with my 37 knights i built and other O units, they didnt invade but i used those units with the CG promo for my new cities on 2nd's subcontinent which i colonized and wanted to fortify those cities alongside my 60 O units i sent there too for the upcoming war.

Quote: from brandonjm8
as ive already stated having D units and enough of them (not alot but enough) will become very useful when say conquering lands so you can have a couple for defense while your O SoD continues its advancement,

You seem to be backing off you "awesome defense" comments when you now say "not alot but enough", but let's look at one of your earlier statements...

i never said "build awesome D's EVERY SINGLE GAME, did i?" didnt think so. that was my biggest ever D force, my 2nd wasnt even close to that game, when i was invaded i was one of the lower powers and at the time the one that invaded was 2nd power and alot more powerful than i so i expected a bitter bitter invasion coming and built alot of O and D units for that. and when you invade someone you plan ahead so numbers wont be a problem you dont hope you have enough you make sure you have enough to keep the advancement going, when i go on conquest missions i bring overkill O units with "some" D units for fortifying new cities, ive never ran out, partly cause i keep reinforcements coming and either i take enough to vassalize them, if and when i build my overkill SoD i wont accept a vassalization from them, im there for "TOTAL DESTRUCTION" and wont accept anything less which is what i built all those units for and planned for. with proper planning and action your SoD bent on total destruction should never stop its advancement, if it does then you didnt plan accordingly, planning and tactics is the #1 priority for me if and when i go a conquering, if i cant totally destroy them and dont want to vassalize then i wont try, if i want to just vassalize them then thats what i plan for, if i want to destroy them and can then its "OVERKILL" , then those extras from that war will be used for the next.

Quote: from brandonjm8,
and before you start thinking "oh his science is too high, he must be weak" come get some lol, i have over 200 infantry, 40 cavalry, 18 artillery, 50+ destroyers, 8 battleships with more coming, 18 airships, 12 fighters with more coming, 10 bombers with more coming. on that little subcontinent i spoke of on one of my earlier posts my army numbers close to 60 for my SoD, the bad thing is now he has sam's and infantry too so im gonna need alot more tanks, got 4 so far with more coming, i aint weak, come try to break my defenses muah hahahahahaha.

So not including ships or air support, you have 258 units, but only 60 units for your SOD. That seems for more defense than "not alot but enough"... and while you were sitting around building that awesome defense when you had the tech lead with infantry, even you note that you allowed your enemy to get sams and infantry... In other words, you blew your opportunity to attack before the enemy had sams and infantry.

that was a one time deal building those infantry and not all had the CG promo either, regarding my edge, it only lasted 4 turns, i didnt have it long enough to use for my benefit, not only did they have 4 turns after i did that wasnt nearly enough time to upgrade and/or build them for my advantage in war, as i said then and i'll say now he kept up with me on war techs and productivity, he was a very good enemy, thank god i was able to vassalize him and get a domination win.

Quote: from brandonjm8,
you may say im not open to your ideas but the same holds true of you too, ive listed many uses for "D" units yet you've failed to recognize the uses and possibilities of having an adequate defense while having an offense,

Let's see... the many "uses" of D that you keep talking about...
Defending your cities.
Most experienced players here talk about how the best defense is not to let the enemy actually attack your cities. Sure, we all "defend" our cities, and balance the needs of offense vs defense, but the question seems to be, What is adequate" The examples you keep pointing too would indicate that your idea of "adequate" is simply overkill. Staying ahead on the power graph so people think you are strong and won't attack...
The power graph doesn't see the difference between offensive and defensive units. If you have a large army, you will be storg on the power graph. You're ratio of 198 defending units vs 60 units for your SOD is exactly the point most of us are trying to make... too much defense and not enough offense. Defending cities that you take so that you SOD can continue on...
The biggest problem with most attacks is running our of units... if you are wasting far too many units on defense, just so you can leave them behind to defend your new territory, one might argue that you aren't attacking properly. You only need to seriously defend new cities that are exposed. If you have planned your attack right, your "front' will be limited, and you will only be exposing a few cities at any given time. So again... You have not provided a compelling argument on why such an awesome defense is needed.

this comment really holds no merit since you assume i build "awesome" D's every game, as said before thats the most ive ever had. and sometimes your O units lose while they still have some so having an "adequate" D should clean them up for you hence they get to attack your cities, your cities can and will get attacked and your O units will die and you will sometimes rely on that D, i agree with the placement thing, always on borders and vulnerable coastal cities and strategic resources late game so they cant bomb them. the only real thing i can tell you MING is to really really read my words, think of how i used them and dont assume anything and get over this "awesome" D business, i was excited that i had such a huge D that game and thought it was funny since they never invaded, but they did become useful when i invaded them and 2nd power later on.

Quote: from brandonjm8,
oh well, as far as you playing higher levels that means nothing, level of difficulty only effects how quick the AI discover techs and build stuff not actual planning on their part,

Nothing????? The difference in tech rates by the AI is EVERYTHING. At the lower levels, you have far larger windows of time to take advantage of your military tech advantage. If done properly at the lower levels, you have huge windows of time to take advantage of your opponents. At the higher levels, those windows are far smaller. With more limited windows, you have to move and attack quickly, not waste your time building a ton of defensive units. Even at the level you are playing at, you stated what a bummer it was that you allowed the AI to build sams and infantry, so that now you needed tanks. It's even worse at the higher levels.

i know the windows are smaller but just because they have the tech lead doesnt mean they use it, ive seen on many of my games tech leaders that are weak, they tend to be builders more than conquerers, only when they are attacked to they build up it seems. really the only thing that matters over difficulty level is what AI's are in the game and how many aggressive ones, those are really the only ones that thirst for blood in any level. and once again my advantage window that game for infantry was 4 turns so try again.

Quote: from brandonjm8,
ive had difficult games on noble for the simple fact they used very good promos and good placement, to be honest my noble games averaged a higher difficulty or took me longer to win then prince so far, yeah ive only played 3 prince games for bts but many many more for vanilla,

You really can't compare vanilla and BTS... they are almost entirely different games. So basing your opinion on simply 3 prince games is probably not what some would call "stastically significant"

key word by you "almost", they are more similar than different, they share majority of the same code, the only things that are different and/or added i like to say is new civs/units/buildings, the only big thing that changed was the spy system that i notice from vanilla to bts. and i played many more games on noble for bts than 3, i play marathon so i will never play as many games as you, because of that dont think your word means more than mine, as i always stated what i say is my opinion and you are entitled to yours as well but stop trying to attack or belittle others opinions cuz they dont meet your "standards", nobody cares for your standards just as mine, all this is is a information exchange not a debate like you are trying to make it out to be. i do agree i need more games on prince for bts, but i played dozens of prince for vanilla, i cant remember the level above prince but thats where i left off on vanilla, went back down to noble when i got bts and am now making my way back up.

Quote: from brandonjm8,
like ive already said just because maybe some of your "D" units never see combat doesnt mean they were wasted, i quote "WHAT IF", choices and options are very nice to have and like they say "its better to have a gun and not use it then to need it and not have it."

From your examples, it seems like most of your "D" units will never see combat. You seem to be more focused on "What IF' than on the more important "What IS". Really... nobody is arguing that you don't need a defense. It just seems like you are taking your defense to wasteful levels. As you claim, it works for you. But maybe when you have played more games, and try some harder levels, you will start seeing what everybody else has been trying to tell you.

stop using one game that i mentioned as what i do all the time, its getting annoying. my O units often either at least balance out or have more than D units, but unless im in immediate danger and need reinforcements the D units i build i give them drill and shock ect promos, only when tough defenders are needed do i give them the CG promo, its the best city defense promo there is because it works against EVERY unit, they are also very valuable in forts within your culture borders for choke points. and yes i do hear what everyone else besides you says and take them to make me better, but you assume too much and are impulsive, with that said i'll take someones advice over yours. now before you right many responses to this READ READ READ every word, assumptions are just lazy and annoying.

and as always just my opinions

[Calvin Vu]

brandonjm8,

You should try playing one game at Emperor level and then tell us what you find. Otherwise, it seems to go in a circle with the rest of us saying that, depending on which stage of the game you are at, you need to make tough choices between economy or military buildup to win (at higher levels) and your saying that it does not matter if you build everything (defence, offence, and infrastructure) without sacrificing anything since you can still whup the AI (at Noble level).

We all believe that you can beat the AI at Noble level already. This is more of a difference of levels than a difference of opinions. You can play one game at Emperor level and then see if you change your opinions or not.

I haven't played at Noble level since roughly 15 years ago when I started with Civ 2. With later Civ releases, I just played a few games at Prince to get a hang of the new mechanics before playing at Monarch and up. I can beat the AI fairly consistently at Immortal level now.

I'm curious what I get if I play at Noble level. Maybe I can win by space race before 1500 AD. That will save the trouble of building all the troops and move them around . Worth an experiment.

[Ming]

i didnt say "i only build D units, did i?" didnt think so, i build O units too, ive stated this from the very start. and yes when my power is enough compared to others or i feel i have enough i switch to research/wealth.

No... but you did say you built EXTRA defensive units. And you didn't bother to mention anything else... So keep on back peddling with every new post.

key word i said was "most" not all, the units that CG promo that one game was when i was invaded and assumed alot more invaders were coming and i wanted to fortify my coastal cities on that side along with my 37 knights i built and other O units, they didnt invade but i used those units with the CG promo for my new cities on 2nd's subcontinent which i colonized and wanted to fortify those cities alongside my 60 O units i sent there too for the upcoming war.

Gee... giving MOST of them CG is a real waste. It's nice that you don't make that same mistake with all your units. And again, only 60 offensive units and far more defensive forces... totally the wrong mix and a complete waste.

i never said "build awesome D's EVERY SINGLE GAME, did i?" didnt think so. that was my biggest ever D force, my 2nd wasnt even close to that game, when i was invaded i was one of the lower powers and at the time the one that invaded was 2nd power and alot more powerful than i so i expected a bitter bitter invasion coming and built alot of O and D units for that. and when you invade someone you plan ahead so numbers wont be a problem you dont hope you have enough you make sure you have enough to keep the advancement going, when i go on conquest missions i bring overkill O units with "some" D units for fortifying new cities, ive never ran out, partly cause i keep reinforcements coming and either i take enough to vassalize them, if and when i build my overkill SoD i wont accept a vassalization from them, im there for "TOTAL DESTRUCTION" and wont accept anything less which is what i built all those units for and planned for. with proper planning and action your SoD bent on total destruction should never stop its advancement, if it does then you didnt plan accordingly, planning and tactics is the #1 priority for me if and when i go a conquering, if i cant totally destroy them and dont want to vassalize then i wont try, if i want to just vassalize them then thats what i plan for, if i want to destroy them and can then its "OVERKILL" , then those extras from that war will be used for the next.

More back peddleing... advocating how we don't understand the concept of a strong defense, and then claiming you've only done it once since everybody has pointed out to you how silly that is.

that was a one time deal building those infantry and not all had the CG promo either, regarding my edge, it only lasted 4 turns, i didnt have it long enough to use for my benefit, not only did they have 4 turns after i did that wasnt nearly enough time to upgrade and/or build them for my advantage in war, as i said then and i'll say now he kept up with me on war techs and productivity, he was a very good enemy, thank god i was able to vassalize him and get a domination win.

Then you must be doing somingthing wrong... you should have far more than a 4 turn tech lead advantage with infantry since the AI doesn't prioritize that path. Maybe if you weren't wasting all your time building an awesome defense, you would have had more than a 4 turn advantage... especially at the levels you are playing on.

this comment really holds no merit since you assume i build "awesome" D's every game, as said before thats the most ive ever had. and sometimes your O units lose while they still have some so having an "adequate" D should clean them up for you hence they get to attack your cities, your cities can and will get attacked and your O units will die and you will sometimes rely on that D, i agree with the placement thing, always on borders and vulnerable coastal cities and strategic resources late game so they cant bomb them. the only real thing i can tell you MING is to really really read my words, think of how i used them and dont assume anything and get over this "awesome" D business, i was excited that i had such a huge D that game and thought it was funny since they never invaded, but they did become useful when i invaded them and 2nd power later on.

More back peddleing... You are the one talking about all the advantages of an awesome defense, and now you are claiming you don't really, since you don't do it every game. Which is it? And I don't have to assume how you use them, because with your own words, they were never attacked... again, a total waste.

i know the windows are smaller but just because they have the tech lead doesnt mean they use it, ive seen on many of my games tech leaders that are weak, they tend to be builders more than conquerers, only when they are attacked to they build up it seems. really the only thing that matters over difficulty level is what AI's are in the game and how many aggressive ones, those are really the only ones that thirst for blood in any level. and once again my advantage window that game for infantry was 4 turns so try again.

For anybody to even claim as you did that the tech differences between levels is not important is just simply moronic. And yes, try again, only a 4 turn tech advantage while playing prince... You should have had MANY MANY YEARS, especially at the speed you play on. You are obviously doing somehting wrong if that's the best you can do.

key word by you "almost", they are more similar than different, they share majority of the same code, the only things that are different and/or added i like to say is new civs/units/buildings, the only big thing that changed was the spy system that i notice from vanilla to bts. and i played many more games on noble for bts than 3, i play marathon so i will never play as many games as you, because of that dont think your word means more than mine, as i always stated what i say is my opinion and you are entitled to yours as well but stop trying to attack or belittle others opinions cuz they dont meet your "standards", nobody cares for your standards just as mine, all this is is a information exchange not a debate like you are trying to make it out to be. i do agree i need more games on prince for bts, but i played dozens of prince for vanilla, i cant remember the level above prince but thats where i left off on vanilla, went back down to noble when i got bts and am now making my way back up.

If the only difference to you is the spy system (which you claim you turn off) and a few new buildings and civs, you really don't understand BTS. The simple fact that collateral damage units can't kill units is one of the biggest changes ever. There are so many other changes, including a stronger AI and tons more. Maybe your lack of understanding is one of the reasons you only had a 4 turn tech advantage to infantry at prince.

stop using one game that i mentioned as what i do all the time, its getting annoying. my O units often either at least balance out or have more than D units, but unless im in immediate danger and need reinforcements the D units i build i give them drill and shock ect promos, only when tough defenders are needed do i give them the CG promo, its the best city defense promo there is because it works against EVERY unit, they are also very valuable in forts within your culture borders for choke points. and yes i do hear what everyone else besides you says and take them to make me better, but you assume too much and are impulsive, with that said i'll take someones advice over yours. now before you right many responses to this READ READ READ every word, assumptions are just lazy and annoying.

More back peddleing... so maybe you are starting to get it... You've gone from most of your units get CG to now only a few. That's the way you should be thinking instead of the stuff you were posting earlier.

and as always just my opinions

And yes, these are my opinions as well... but it's interesting that not many people agree with your opinons... and all of them have far more experience with the game than you do.

[-Jrabbit]

Get a room, you two.

[prelynmax]

I just say leave it on Settler and have fun.

[brandonjm8]

brandonjm8,

You should try playing one game at Emperor level and then tell us what you find. Otherwise, it seems to go in a circle with the rest of us saying that, depending on which stage of the game you are at, you need to make tough choices between economy or military buildup to win (at higher levels) and your saying that it does not matter if you build everything (defence, offence, and infrastructure) without sacrificing anything since you can still whup the AI (at Noble level).

We all believe that you can beat the AI at Noble level already. This is more of a difference of levels than a difference of opinions. You can play one game at Emperor level and then see if you change your opinions or not.

I haven't played at Noble level since roughly 15 years ago when I started with Civ 2. With later Civ releases, I just played a few games at Prince to get a hang of the new mechanics before playing at Monarch and up. I can beat the AI fairly consistently at Immortal level now.

I'm curious what I get if I play at Noble level. Maybe I can win by space race before 1500 AD. That will save the trouble of building all the troops and move them around . Worth an experiment.

i play on prince on bts ::
and i left off on vanilla at one higher than prince so was that monarch? if so, that was my main difficulty on vanilla. i dont play as much as you guys do and i play marathon so my games last alot longer than you, once ive kicked @$$ 3 or more times per level i go up, ive gotten two already on prince, my latest game is going to be alot more difficult, had a ****ty starting area but im quickly catching up. i dont build everything at once either, of course sacrifices will be made, every game more than once. im not much concerned about units as you guys cuz my productivity is always way ahead and the size of my maps and smart placements of scouts assure me all is well, if for example with my current game theres 10 civs total 5 on our continent and the japs are one of them and they just lost all 39 of their invading force on suicide missions against my macemen (t'was very funny tho, i didnt lose a single unit and got a GG outta it) but i knew it was coming from my scouts and with my superior productivity to theirs i whipped a weak army of axeman/spears in bout 10 turns (13 total units between the two) and then i made 7 longbowmen and 1 crossbow and 14 macemen in less than 10 turns for a total army of 35 plus i sent two cats and that stopped them in their tracks and provided me with alot of strong units from all the exp's points i got, im only a builder when i can be and when the time comes if my scouts pick it up i can build (not whip) an army in short time, now if i dont pick it up then my "adequate" D will hold up while my SoD is either being built or moving to the invading point, but with this game i have a choke point that you must cross in order to get to me and i have my 37 units right on it and its hills w/ forest, lol, i couldnt stop laughing when they attacked it was funny and that damn tokugawa always attacks me lol.

i wouldnt have needed 37 but i didnt have crossbows or macemen when i first spotted their armies coming, half way through my build up i got macemen and crossbows and then switched, with those two units i wouldve only needed 20 at most to guarantee victory for that battle, but now ive got a very strong stack of 37 units for the next wave i sense coming, i spotted hes got samurais now so im gonna need at least 10 knights once i get guilds (in 6 turns). didnt start with any horse so no mounted units, pacal was nice enough to just give it to me in exchange for 10 turns of peace, lol.

[brandonjm8]

No... but you did say you built EXTRA defensive units. And you didn't bother to mention anything else... So keep on back peddling with every new post.



Gee... giving MOST of them CG is a real waste. It's nice that you don't make that same mistake with all your units. And again, only 60 offensive units and far more defensive forces... totally the wrong mix and a complete waste.



More back peddleing... advocating how we don't understand the concept of a strong defense, and then claiming you've only done it once since everybody has pointed out to you how silly that is.




Then you must be doing somingthing wrong... you should have far more than a 4 turn tech lead advantage with infantry since the AI doesn't prioritize that path. Maybe if you weren't wasting all your time building an awesome defense, you would have had more than a 4 turn advantage... especially at the levels you are playing on.




More back peddleing... You are the one talking about all the advantages of an awesome defense, and now you are claiming you don't really, since you don't do it every game. Which is it? And I don't have to assume how you use them, because with your own words, they were never attacked... again, a total waste.




For anybody to even claim as you did that the tech differences between levels is not important is just simply moronic. And yes, try again, only a 4 turn tech advantage while playing prince... You should have had MANY MANY YEARS, especially at the speed you play on. You are obviously doing somehting wrong if that's the best you can do.



If the only difference to you is the spy system (which you claim you turn off) and a few new buildings and civs, you really don't understand BTS. The simple fact that collateral damage units can't kill units is one of the biggest changes ever. There are so many other changes, including a stronger AI and tons more. Maybe your lack of understanding is one of the reasons you only had a 4 turn tech advantage to infantry at prince.



More back peddleing... so maybe you are starting to get it... You've gone from most of your units get CG to now only a few. That's the way you should be thinking instead of the stuff you were posting earlier.




And yes, these are my opinions as well... but it's interesting that not many people agree with your opinons... and all of them have far more experience with the game than you do.

dude you've got to be the biggest moron here, i had a 10 tech lead but not a big unit tech lead, of course i got to tanks first and that made it easy but 2nd power was almost as big as me you f'ing donk, you dont listen to anything, do you hear voices in your head when reading others posts? do you see "dead" people? lol

but once again you've proved your compulsiveness and twisted my words to support your own claims, you have little reading/writing capabilities huh? you dont know what half of my words mean or what they mean how i use them, sorry your old and losing your mind but as i said earlier and this is the last time i respond to you, READ THEN READ AGAIN THEN EVEN AFTER THAT READ THEM AGAIN, pay attention to the words i use and how i use them, if you must fill in the supposed gaps with your own assumptions then that shows us all how insecure and low a person you are, go on and make some crack jokes now, you dont matter so they wont either, but i could always use a good laugh . i would say grow up and act your age but you would just say that of me so do what you will, in the end Ming no-one will care what you say, i mean that sincerely, same thing with most of what i said but for the people who actually read what i wrote and understand may further comment and offer advice or may actually use my experiences to better further their own game, sorry guys im not trying to be mean but idiots like Ming need some of their own medicine, people who dont pay attention make poor advisors, and as always just my opinion

[trev]

A ten tech lead and only just get to infantry first? Hell, usually I am 10 techs behind and still get to infantry first, but then on emperor and immortal military techs are just about all you can afford to go for, any other choice leaves you a military cripple.But when I get there first there are some big conquest coming for sure.

[brandonjm8]

A ten tech lead and only just get to infantry first? Hell, usually I am 10 techs behind and still get to infantry first, but then on emperor and immortal military techs are just about all you can afford to go for, any other choice leaves you a military cripple.But when I get there first there are some big conquest coming for sure.

i had major health problems that game from the factories and coal plants that i needed to address and before that i was wonder whoring i admit it, what can i say why not be greedy when the chance arises, didnt really take me much longer after getting infantry, got tanks right afterward and built up everything navy air and siege and everything else, i took 5 of his TOUGH defended cities in one turn, lost 21 or something close to that was bout 1/4 of my SoD landwise that is units tho .

i hear ya, i wonder what the actual % of how much less hammers are needed for the AI's units/buildings going up on levels compared to our own, i remember on civ2 on deity the AI had a 50% less needed hammers compared to the human player. if you get a great starting locale and plenty of resources and can get big productive specialized cities you have a good chance of keeping up with the AI dependent on other factors as well, one thing some people dont realize why some of my games take longer is i play no tech trading/brokering, everyone has to learn their own techs, i like it that way otherwise even on noble sometimes the AI out techs ya, . plus it makes the game harder, more choices to make and you cant go to your good buddy and trade for his techs. im pretty sure my GNP will be alot lower on higher levels depending on how often i get attacked. those wonder techs really help a brother out tho, you cant and wont always be able to let the AI build them then take them over, its a risk either way, either you get it and build it and reap the rewards or let the AI get it and increase their advantage over ya only hoping to someday somehow take the city.