How well are you doing. (The Crossover Metric)

[brandonjm8]

I wonder if there is some strategy which doesn't have such high maintenance costs.

/sorry, couldn't resist.

well if you mean conquering them no, my map is huge, i play only huge or bigger than huge maps, to even get to the closest AI wouldve taken at least 40+ turns not to mention i had no horses and they did and they all were stronger than me early game and had higher unit techs throughout too and 3 of the 4 other civs share the same religion and were friendly with one another so if i attacked one of them id be at war with all 3 of them who were all stronger than me and i wouldve been toast , but now i got horse and catching up tech wise and now 3rd power but still at war with 2nd power, if and when i can go a conquering wont be til later on if ever with our size of continent, this may be a space race or diplo race this game, been awhile.

[brandonjm8]

Neat idea, I'll have to post mine of my latest game (just got back into civ after about 11 months off) whenever it happens. Reading these scores makes me realize just how much faster the game goes on lower difficulty and faster games, my usual one is Immortal/Marathon which generally provides a decent challenge (I can survive on Deity but I'm mostly in that area between finding Immortal too easy/repetitive and Deity impossible to progress until we're all in the modern era).

Curious though, since Marathon is 3x the build speed, but only 2x the build speed for units, should I stick to the turn/3 rule or no since it effectively makes units cost 2/3 as much, giving me more time to build infrastructure/wealth/research?

the hammers needed for units differ in marathon, like settlers take 300 hammers in marathon and only 100 in normal so thats 3x, other units are close to 3x too but most fall between 2x or higher. since buildings take 3x longer dividing by 3 for marathon makes sense, only certain units can be lower than 3x but they too are least 2x to 3x. economies are for the most part generated by buildings and they take 3x longer and turns themselves are 3x more than normal so dividing by 3 is fair. the only advantage with marathon is that troop movement is still the same but takes alot longer to build them compared to normal, with normal you do have a smaller window of error but with marathon you are able to be more strategic that are now listed below for "those who are easily confused".

edit: for those who get confused easily, with my settings and size of map and the fact it takes the AI awhile to send reinforcements i can strategize more on marathon.

2nd edit: for the anal retentive people, "the only advantage with marathon is that troop movement is still the same but takes alot longer to build them compared to normal, with normal you do have a smaller window of error since the time it takes to replace lost units is alot shorter but with marathon you are able to be more strategic if you play similar huge maps such as i makes the window of error bigger since troop movement takes longer, if you attack them or defend some ways from your nation you have time to move reserves in place while they are continuing their march to your nation."

[Ming]

with normal you do have a smaller window of error but with marathon you are able to be more strategic.

HUH? What are you talking about? Since when does marathon equate to having to be more "strategic"
One might argue that the smaller windows of opportunity would equate to having to be more strategic.

[Brael]

I'm not really sure either is more strategic, they're just different types of strategy. With marathon you have long drawn out games, there's more options available at any given time. You can certainly adopt more strategies than a quicker game, where you only have time to move in say one direction or another (particularly with warfare) but it just means there's more opportunity to make a mistake as well. Those extra turns work both ways, it means AI's can move armies around more freely, and making an AI mad might make you open to them attacking you for say the next 300 turns rather than 100 turns, so you have to be a bit more careful on the diplomacy side of things.

Anyways, at 195/498... still no crossover, or even close.

[Theben]

2nd edit: for the anal retentive people, "the only advantage with marathon is that troop movement is still the same but takes alot longer to build them compared to normal, with normal you do have a smaller window of error since the time it takes to replace lost units is alot shorter but with marathon you are able to be more strategic if you play similar huge maps such as i makes the window of error bigger since troop movement takes longer, if you attack them or defend some ways from your nation you have time to move reserves in place while they are continuing their march to your nation."

Sheesh, I had to read that 3 times to fully understand what was said.

FWIW, I got the gist right away... the finer points required multiple readings. Try spacing & caps!

[brandonjm8]

Sheesh, I had to read that 3 times to fully understand what was said.

FWIW, I got the gist right away... the finer points required multiple readings. Try spacing & caps!

but you took the time to read it more than once to fully understand what was said unlike one other individual here, i have spaces between my words dont i? (i know what your saying paragraphs and such, will do). caps, who needs them , but i see what you are saying and will try.

[brandonjm8]

thought id post my 3x crossover from same game mentioned earlier:

turn 639 (so 213 compared to normal)
1488 A.D.
871 beakers @ 70%
+81 gold/turn
rep gov't finally,

5x crossover:

turn 678 (226 compared to normal speed)
1413 beakers @ 70%
+181 gold/turn
getting a couple of AI's to open trade gave me almost 200 more beakers

[Krill]

RAH, have you been on the crack man? Does this have any relevance at all? Like, you could have 60 bpt by turn 60 and someone could have a stack of 15 war chariots about to come stamp you into the ground.

[Ming]

Now Now Krill... you know Rah would probably have 14 spearman already for the WC's
I do agree that if you have 60 beakers by turn 60, you've totally ignored building an army. But in the 150 to 200 range, if you aren't starting to crank out some beakers, you are going to fall behind in the key military techs. I don't really care what kind of army a person has if you ram cannons and grens down their throat

[Ming]

thought id post my 3x crossover from same game mentioned earlier:

turn 639 (so 213 compared to normal)
1488 A.D.
871 beakers @ 70%
+81 gold/turn
rep gov't finally,

5x crossover:

turn 678 (226 compared to normal speed)
1413 beakers @ 70%
+181 gold/turn
getting a couple of AI's to open trade gave me almost 200 more beakers

Actualy, your stats are kind of irrelevent. Playing on the types of worlds, level, and number of civs you do, you've made it as easy as possible for yourself to do it. It's impossible for most people to even view them for comparison since few people rig the world/game as much as you do.

[Krill]

Now Now Krill... you know Rah would probably have 14 spearman already for the WC's
I do agree that if you have 60 beakers by turn 60, you've totally ignored building an army. But in the 150 to 200 range, if you aren't starting to crank out some beakers, you are going to fall behind in the key military techs. I don't really care what kind of army a person has if you ram cannons and grens down their throat

It's pretty naf because it ignores alot of nuances. Trade routes, beakers from specialists, building research, bulbing...that and binary research is better, saving gold and then going 100% research once you know what tech is most needed.

[Ming]

True enough... but after the early game is passed, if you can't "on demand" crank out 150 to 250 beakers per turn, somebody else is going to come on knocking with cannons before you get them. The first to cats, tribs, and cannons has a very distinct advantage.

[Krill]

On demand? I think a good game should be able to crank out about 500 bpt by t140 on demand, and some times you have to make massive use of building research because you don;t have much cottagable land, which really skews the numbers.

[Ming]

Hmmm... I guess even using research, I would have a hard time cranking out 500 bpt by t140. That must be why you kill me all the time

[rah]

This was not meant to be an end all, I just wanted to use it for discussion and a VERY general guideline. If you can crank 500 by t140, as long as you've defended yourself, you're on the path to victory.

Ok Krill, assume one of our normal MP games, at what point would you be satisfied with crossover assuming you've taken care of business. At what point would you be worried if you hadn't and what would make you not care about it. GENERAL only.