Wonder Rankings (BTS)

[wodan11]

you havent played me, if the builder has any strategic knowledge it wont be easy and may not happen, in my current game our continent is cut in half (not literally, im on the east side, giglamesh is on the west side), i stood to the builder and wonder whoring part this game yet my border cities have the following: one has 20 infrantry, 5 machine gun, 10 cavalry, 4 artillery, 3 fighters, 1 paratrooper thus far. other city to the left: 15 infrantry, 10 machine gun, 10 cavalry, 3 fighters. next city to the north: 10 infrantry, 3 machine gun, 6 cavalry, 2 fighters. next city north and last on the west side: 8 infrantry, 3 machine gun, 6 cavalry, 3 fighters. on the east coast all coastal cities have 8-10 infrantry in each, all other of my cities have minimum 4 infrantry ready to go wherever needed. point is if your a "smart" builder that builds up defenses first and early then once the new tech comes upgrades ASAP we are mighty hard to beat, now that i have everything built in some cities and others are close too, im starting to build an offensive force especially once i get tanks, making an alliance with 3rd strongest will make it easier but i inherited a war with it but it was with 2nd place who hated my guts anyways and has a vassal himself.

oh yeah, no one else has destroyers yet but i have bout 32 of them so far,

In MP if you wait until you have Infantry then the game is probably over.

[rah]

Yep anyone that thinks infantry is "EARLY" hasn't played much MP.

[Ming]

If you are really isolated, or have a nice choke point, an early builder strategy can work beautifully and is probably the best way to a long drawn out victory. However, at the highest levels of play, there will probably be a civ or two who can still match you technology wise. At the Mid to High levels, you can probably easily stay ahead of the AI's.

If you aren't isolated and don't have good choke points, a builder strategy carries far greater risks

And that's in regards to SP... because in MP, the minute the world see's that you are wonder whoring, there is a good chance that somebody will put all their efforts into making you their next target, and while you are building wonders and infrastructure, they will be building units

On the other hand... players like Trev can keep a pretty good balance of building a good army while still cranking out some wonders... but I wouldn't call it wonder whoring.

[Dinner]

Builders usually get taken out early unless they're isolated.

It depends. If I intend to be a builder, which usually I don't decide until these conditions are met, I go around and kill all of my nearby neighbors. If I can kill one or two of them then I get their capital cities which often have resources (since the AI puts player settlers in good spots), I get plenty of room to grow, and most importantly I no longer have to worry about close neighbors. That gives me breathing room and often times other civs will have closer neighbors who they decide to attack first so that gives me time to switch to a builder without too much fear of attack.

[rah]

Unless, of course, you start next to me when I'm the native americans.

[brandonjm8]

nope havent played any MP yet, probably wont. i like to play marathon speed, more realistic, in some aspects its harder, takes longer to build an army and your given more time to use it instead of it becoming obsolete as soon as you got an army built. i quote "marathon mode is excellent" hehehe, lol,

[trev]

Oracle is one of the last of the early wonders that I would build, stonehenge, great wall, pyramids get a higher priority.
There is one huge reason for this, it requires 3 deviations on the tech path for good defence and economy early to get priesthood. I am learning AH, BW etc in that time, often IW as well. I want to be able to farm, pasture, chop, mine before I worry about getting this wonder or that. The wonders I get require 1 deviation from my favoured tech paths, paths which enable me to be a builder and maintain a good defensive and offensive army.

[brandonjm8]

early years, pyramids are by far the best, if you are coastal or and/or will have alot of coastal cities GL and colussus are incredible, great early burst for science and money. if you have diplo victory then united nations would be the best (only if your the strongest, easy victory that way) but if not then hmmm, thats a toughy all later wonders are good to have. my personal fav is the pentagon, +2 exp for all cities coupled with barracks, airports, ect ect and with proper civics is/could be the difference between 3 or 4 or 5 promos. right now thus far in my cap units start out with 18 exp w/o vassalage or theo, so i like pentagon, yeah, lol.

[wodan11]

Colossus is non-optimal if you're using cottages (in a CE). Unless you're doing a coastal or trade economy with a later transition to CE (and make NO cottages in your coastal cities until midgame).

[One_more_turn]

Even in SP, it's a lot cheaper to take other AI's cities than to built your own, unless they are too far away.

[brandonjm8]

Even in SP, it's a lot cheaper to take other AI's cities than to built your own, unless they are too far away.

i disagree, if you really believe that then you should only need one city, your cap.

[Boracks]

My current game, I'm NA, my second city was from my settler, third was Persepolis (thanks, Darius!), fourth was a barb city, five through eight were Spanish (thanks, Isabella!), nine was barbarian.

At that point I had to let my economy recover, eventually built a few more settlers, and a couple more barb cities, but the foundation was essentially done with only one settler from me.

All a matter of the opportunities, and taking them. That's why we love this game.

[brandonjm8]

My current game, I'm NA, my second city was from my settler, third was Persepolis (thanks, Darius!), fourth was a barb city, five through eight were Spanish (thanks, Isabella!), nine was barbarian.

At that point I had to let my economy recover, eventually built a few more settlers, and a couple more barb cities, but the foundation was essentially done with only one settler from me.

All a matter of the opportunities, and taking them. That's why we love this game.

try playing continents, you'll need a different strategy then. you wont be able to do anything til astronomy and by then if you havent been expanding then you wont stand a chance. only on pangea maps can you expand w/o building settlers. continents is more a challenge, i prefer challenges rather then quick wins, thats how you truly get better.

[Ming]

I think that your comment that continents is more challenging is simply a matter of player preference. I would argue that continents make it easier since you don't have to worry much about early defense and can concentrate on building your infrastructure first. On Pangea maps, sure you can expand w/o building settlers, but so can the AI... and it might be your cities

[brandonjm8]

I think that your comment that continents is more challenging is simply a matter of player preference. I would argue that continents make it easier since you don't have to worry much about early defense and can concentrate on building your infrastructure first. On Pangea maps, sure you can expand w/o building settlers, but so can the AI... and it might be your cities

play huge map with continents four of them 8 civs, that way 2 civs per continent and you have someone to watch out for from the start, or 9 civs on 3 continents, theres ways to fight early while using continents.