Wonder Rankings (BTS)

[brandonjm8]

also if you play and expand by yourself then the ai is too, that means once you get astronomy they will or can be bigger than you, hence bigger challenge, more strategizing, the bigger they are the harder they fall, well most of the time

[Ming]

I stand by my comments... Huge maps with that few civs means a lot of room for everybody. AI civs "usually" don't get aggressive until they run out of space. On smaller and more compact worlds, that happens MUCH earlier. Plus, you won't run into an early situation where 4 civs dog pile on you. Watching just one or two civs is MUCH easier

But again... a matter of opinon and preference.

[Theben]

Eh, I've done the continents thing and if you get the GW it's pretty easy as the 1-2 other civs on your continent are getting pounded by barbs (assuming raging barbs). Then you research IW and maybe Construction and take over the continent early. While the other civs compete with each other you build up an entire continent.

[Ming]

And at least when you are pounding on them, two or three other civs can't pound on you

[brandonjm8]

why must they pound on you early? maybe if you gave continents more of a try youd see what im saying, plus if 8 or 9 on a huge map aint enough have 3 or 4 continents with 12 civs, not much room there. plus once countrys get situated and everyone has 20+ cities or more and you make it to modern age, watch what the ai sends towards ya, lol. two games ago before i made an alliance i had 2nd bribe two lower powers to DoW on me and that was playing continents, it does happen and will happen. it also happens very early if your next to aggressive leaders, they dont care about alot of land still they'll come after you right away like monty . not all continent games last long but the ones that do will give you fits cuz you can and might just have half the world DoW on ya even with your own island and get your pants knocked off, lol.

[wodan11]

A human who is a good "builder" will probably find continents less challenging. A human who builds unnecessary wonders, or expands too fast (and thus gets bogged down economically and has to dig out of a hole), or spends a lot of early money on unit maintenance trying to dominate your continent early, (etc) will probably find continents more challenging.

What continents does is limits the human's interactions to one or two AIs. The % chance of getting a friendly neighbor stays the same. But there's no additive possibility of an assured enemy. And, if you do get an enemy, you only have ONE enemy. So, the early game is less risky, and MUCH greater opportunity for the human to continue with plans (whatever they are) unabated.

To some extent, that's not saying much, because that interaction is NOT removed, it is simply DEFERRED. Some people focus so much on the early game that the middle and modern eras don't really exist for them. Well, with continents that perspective doesn't work very well.

However, a human who excels at building infrastructure, at minimizing economic waste, etc. is going to be better at it than the AIs are. The AI simply does not build infrastrucure as well as a human can. So, deferring conflict in many aspects is to the human's favor. (If that human is good at infrastructure.)

[Theben]

A human who builds unnecessary wonders, or expands too fast (and thus gets bogged down economically and has to dig out of a hole), or spends a lot of early money on unit maintenance trying to dominate your continent early, (etc) will probably find the game more challenging.

fixed.

[rah]

Yes, the early game is a lot easier when you're playing continents. It's kind of like the difference between MP an SP.

[wodan11]

fixed.

But even more so on pangaea (etc) than continents. After all, if you build too large an army on pangaea, I daresay you'll find a convenient enemy, or they'll find you. Either way, you'll have a use for those units.

[rah]

On pangaea or MP, when in doubt build units. If you think you have too many, use them.

[brandonjm8]

you guys forget that yeah you get time to build infrastructure and units but so is the ai, later in the game/eras if you try to conquer when you get astronomy (ya need galleons) its going to be more challenging cuz the ai has built up too, they will more than likely have more cities and possibly more units. this equation holds true everytime: the bigger the ai the harder they will be to conquer and the more likely they will conquer you which in this aspect makes continents harder not early but later, the only determining factor is tech's but if you play like me then no tech trading/brokering should offset that. in most of my games im usually in the tech lead but not by much, only when i get to modern and have tanks will i have a huge tech lead over half the ai's, just my opinion

[wodan11]

you guys forget that yeah you get time to build infrastructure

I didn't forget it... very clearly said that the AI is no match for the human *especially* in building infrastructure.

Put a human who knows how to min/max infrastructure on an isolated continent and put an AI on an isolated continent, and remove galleons (etc) from the game. Wait 400 turns. The human will be 12-15 techs ahead of the AI. If your experience isn't the same, then we should discuss play styles, because we don't play the same.

and units

Units are a much less of an issue. If I'm on a continent with just one AI, I will VERY early make a decision to be buddies or to make him my biatch by 100BC (if that). In either case, I don't need another 1000 years of building units and will be focusing on infrastructure.

On Pangaea, however, you usually can't ever stop building units. If you do, you're dead.

but so is the ai, later in the game/eras if you try to conquer when you get astronomy (ya need galleons) its going to be more challenging cuz the ai has built up too

In my experience the AI will have as many units, but I'll be way ahead in tech. It's simply a matter of timing. Usually go get Rifles and/or Cannon and that's that. Both Rifles and Cannon are a factor of ten more powerful than anything that comes before.

, they will more than likely have more cities and possibly more units. this equation holds true everytime: the bigger the ai the harder they will be to conquer

"Every time"??

So we're back to this (yeah, I know, I'm mixing threads and people. Sorry, Brandon). What's the quote... "You keep using that word -- I do not think it means what you think it means."

the only determining factor is tech's but if you play like me then no tech trading/brokering should offset that

I guess I don't play like you then. Anyway we were talking about infrastructure, not lightbulbing and brokering. But since you bring it up, that's much less effective on continents.

[brandonjm8]

i look to make each game challenging yet even, in more detail i want a challenge but dont want to give them a "huge" advantage over me in order to do it, so ive played with the settings and figured out if you dont allow tech trading (for yourself too) it makes the game harder cuz you may go one path and they can go another, maybe higher unit path kinda thing. making yourself have to discover each and every tech makes the game require more strategizing on your part. i play the builder strategy myself but i wont do that til ive got A. a strong, strong defense or B. build an army for offense. i do agree tho, it appears i always tend to have more gnp (infrastructure then the ai often), i also get huge tech leads this way but lose it or they just catch up (but then get it back usually after the modernizing) when i learn a new unit tech and modernize my army (i only do that if i can, if im behind then the modernizing will take longer), i also agree with having an ai on your continent i'll make the choice to either spread my religion and get them to convert or whatever to make them my possible ally or i'll build defenses on the border if they too big to take out quickly or build a SoD for total destruction (if i do that, i fall behind on techs and it cripples my economy if before markets ect., but hey at least ive got plenty o units for the future), i will never play pangaea (not interested) but sometimes i play actual earth and i hear ya there on the constant unit building lol, i also do some conquering of my own especially with rifleman/cavalry/cannons if they still have bowmen/macemen/pikemen then yes its very easy otherwise i'll wait til i have infrantry if i must and then if even further is needed i'll wait for tanks (dont like too but will if needed, sometimes the ai does keep up tech wise/power wise but no not often but sometimes they have before), maybe "everytime" wasnt the best word but yes in most of my games on BTS ive noticed the ai expands faster than i at first but i take the huge tech lead cuz i wont stiffle my economy, once i hit 50% science i dont like to go lower than that so i'll then wait for markets then start the next wave (so far in my current game ive got 36 cities in less than 20 hours, not bad, also got 70% science with 1600 beakers now, i play marathon), and yes "I ALWAYS PLAY WITH NO TECH TRADING/BROKERING" lol, get your own and learn your own, makes it harder if not think more of what you are doing, as always just my opinions.

[rah]

i also do some conquering of my own especially with rifleman/cavalry/cannons if they still have bowmen/macemen/pikemen then yes its very easy otherwise i'll wait til i have infrantry

If you really want a challenge, try going to war when you don't have such a big tech lead.

If you're that far ahead consistently, you should be upping your difficulty level.

[brandonjm8]

ive had plenty of wars without a tech lead, its usually the ai DoW on me tho. im not stupid, i play to win, i plan to win, if i cant win or have to build a ratio of 5 to 1 then i'll wait to "conquer" but if im attacked then i have no choice so i have before. i value my units maybe too much but once i go a conquering i want a 3 to 1 (my favor) kill ratio or if i have utterly supreme numbers on my side. ive been thinking of upping the level but i dont like having to give the ai such a huge advantage. i guess id like to know what each level grants them after prince, the instructions dont say.