Wonder Rankings (BTS)

[Ming]

Don't get me wrong... I LOVE the SoL. However, by then, I better already have a big lead.

To me, Pyramids is one of those must have early wonders. It can give you the lead you need early. The plus three happiness in your top 5 cities is also a great advantage early.

[Guynemer]

The only reason I don't usually go for the Pyramids is the expense. You do get what you pay for--the benefits are incredible. Not just early Rep, but Engineer points are always welcome.

But, goddamn. Even with some bronze and/or iron in the city radius, it's usually over 100 turns; if I am lucky enough to get stone hooked up early, I'll go for it. But usually I'll spend those turns building settlers or early rushers.




Christ Almighty, I can't wait to hear about Civ 5.

[Ming]

I try to target the Pyramids by turn 75 thru 85. With stone or industrius, earlier than that. Chopping is HUGE

[One_more_turn]

Comments laced into the quote except for this last one. If seeking a domination victory, the ET and CR may be a bit late. But if you seek spaceship or cultural victory, both are a Godsend completely enabling the owner to switch back and forth from war civics to peace as your last opponents fool with you, and maintaining happiness as war weariness takes its nicks.

Liked your thinking and presentation.

By building the Great Wall and choosing the raging barbarian option, AI civs will take the brunt of barbarian invasions while I can expand effortlessly.

As for building Oracle after researching Math or Monarchy, I can usually achieve it 70% of the time, and I play Monarch and above.

[sorinache]

I like Great Wall for more than just the anti-barb option. The +100% great General growth on your land is nice, but the real kicker is an early Great Spy or 2. A fast unit that can't be killed, it can scout out a continent and swipe all the huts from under barbs, then drop into your neighbor civ- the one with all the techs you don't have- allowing you to steal 5-7 techs.

Wow ! I didn't know that ! I always wondered what Great Spies were good at ... Stealing 5-7 techs ??? That sounds awesome, I'll have to try it out really fast ! Especially since GW is reasonably priced (unlike Pyramids which are certainly nice but damn expensive)

I liked getting SoL but didn't think of it as important until this last game with my buddy. I have 26 cities to his 30 and we're both Representative. He beat me to it by 2 turns which turned out to be a huge boost to his science. Only thing saving me is his tech path took him away from communism so I've got a boost there.

Interesting, I'll have to remember that one ... I do not prioritize Comm at all and vastly prefer to run Free Market and found a couple of Corporations than go for State Prop ... Playing Immortal on Earth (huge map) now I have around 50 cities sprawling over Europe, Africa and both North and South America. I run Rep, Free Speech, Emancipation, Free Market, Org religion and I'm slightly in the green with the slider at 90% ... generating > 7000 beakers / turn (15 turns or so from vicotry, just launched the spaceship) ... How much better could State property have been ?

[slnz]

Wow ! I didn't know that ! I always wondered what Great Spies were good at ... Stealing 5-7 techs ??? That sounds awesome, I'll have to try it out really fast ! Especially since GW is reasonably priced (unlike Pyramids which are certainly nice but damn expensive)

You can indeed stack huge discounts in the right situation for tech stealing. Examples of things that give a discount: low distance to your capital, your state religion present in the city, you having the holy city of that religion, open borders.

With tons of stacked bonuses a spybomb can easily be equal to 3 scientist bulbs. Also it's good for backfilling cheap techs, since trading for those racks up your WFYABTA limit for no reason.

With no nearby neighbors spies tend to suck, though. Also beware of the diplo repercussions from your caught spies, they get caught more on high difficulties due to the way the catching is calculated.

[rah]

If they can't take a joke. **** em.

Actually I've used it a few times to goad an AI into attacking me. Pile on those negatives.

[Theben]

Interesting, I'll have to remember that one ... I do not prioritize Comm at all and vastly prefer to run Free Market and found a couple of Corporations than go for State Prop ... Playing Immortal on Earth (huge map) now I have around 50 cities sprawling over Europe, Africa and both North and South America. I run Rep, Free Speech, Emancipation, Free Market, Org religion and I'm slightly in the green with the slider at 90% ... generating > 7000 beakers / turn (15 turns or so from vicotry, just launched the spaceship) ... How much better could State property have been ?

State Prop is good for large sprawling empires, espec newly conquered ones that lack courthouses. It's more a "get my bonuses now" civic as opposed to free market + corps which are "we'll win out in the long run"... after building tons of corporate goons and dropping them in your cities.

Free Market+lots o corps+developed cities > State Prop > early Free Market with no corps

[Ming]

Maybe if corps came earlier in the game, I could get excited about them. But by the time they come on line, I'm already cruising. So I target State Property and just run with it. Less work, easier to deal with, and no need creating a bunch of "corporate goons"... Sure, you can get some advantage going with corporations and free market, but I really don't need it at that point of the game. Could I shave a some turns from the victory, probably... but not worth the hassel

[Blaupanzer]

Interesting, I'll have to remember that one ... I do not prioritize Comm at all and vastly prefer to run Free Market and found a couple of Corporations than go for State Prop ... Playing Immortal on Earth (huge map) now I have around 50 cities sprawling over Europe, Africa and both North and South America. I run Rep, Free Speech, Emancipation, Free Market, Org religion and I'm slightly in the green with the slider at 90% ... generating > 7000 beakers / turn (15 turns or so from victory, just launched the spaceship) ... How much better could State property have been ?

Civics are not fixed. As noted in an empire full of newly conquered, no culture, no courthouse cities change to State Property. Helps in wars too, since border closings don't hurt the discount the way they do corporate income. No colony expenses either, I would note. Corps are for peaceful types with lots of infrastructure. For conquerors, those execs, buildings, and other infrastructure buildings are not units and are not unit enhancements. Capitalism will make you rich, IF you survive the war. However, a rich loser is still a loser on domination day.

(In the case given, you had no human opponent rolling up your cities in Africa and Europe or whatever. Once you've essentially tamed the AI, then spaceship, cultural, and diplomatic victories can emerge. My impression of MP play is that humans need to be exterminated to the person. )

[rah]

Yep, slit those damn execs throats.

But it is good to hear from all the different style players since you never know when you'll find yourself in a different situation.

[Blaupanzer]

Yes, Sorinache is indicating a degree of mastery over corps that exceeds my understanding, let alone capabilities. That was a specific intent of the BTS design and, by George, I think he's got it. Well done.

[rah]

Yeah, I'm more like ming. By the time corps are available, I'm beginning my final campaigns and don't like to be distracted by details except Kill, Kill, and Kill.

[wodan11]

I've been playing FFH (and FF plus) a lot lately. You found "corps" (guilds) with great people, so you can found them quite early in the game. The dynamics are quite different.... I like it.

[rah]

I always did wish that they appeared earlier in the game, like when I give a crap.