Making friends with aggressive civs.

[brandonjm8]

oh boy since he posted that, im gonna go buy me some "Replica-Watches" lol, yeah right you damn womens private cleaner, lol. :P

[rah]

I assume a bot's post was deleted.

[Blaupanzer]

ive noticed only "worst enemy", i too havent noticed anything like "you refused to trade with our worst enemy" or something of that nature, i have noticed on rare occasion "you've traded with our worst enemy" a few times between two AI's before, not much tho. as far as demands go, ive yet to see an AI do it to another. if im wrong or if people have, lemme know, thx.

How would you tell if a demand occured between AIs? They do occasionally cancel their deals with each other, which is a demand we get pretty steadily. Sometime after a declaration on me in an ongoing war, I will notice that the declarer no longer needs a tech from me that he did before. Other than that we are just guessing as to the combination of trades and demands that move techs among the AIs. Any idea how you'd tell if they asked but got rejected? I don't see a lot of "you refused to help me" in their diplo relations summary on pages 1 or 2.

[wertyu70]

In my current game, I play Costantine and I have Vikings near me on the same continent with Mansa and Lincoln (I rushed him with Chariot).
I managed to keep Ragnar Pleased for a long time (same religion, a lot of trade)
and when I was ready to start attacking him with Cataphracts, he suddenly asked me to accept him as a Vassal...
I accepted and used my army to attack Mali and after 2 turns of war Mansa capitulated.

I used my two vassals for research (both seems to tech as fast as me...)
and the game seems won because the other continent is really backward
and in the middle of a religion war (Buddist Spain with the best army
against Indu Mehmed and Brennus).

But I have a doubt:
Should I fear a backstub from Ragnar? I notice his power rating is rising.
Can he become free again and attack me at Pleased?

[Ming]

If the Civilopedia is correct, a voluntary vassal, like in the situation you discribed, can break the deal after 10 turns (but the master can't).

If the vassal deal is based on capitualation in a war, then the vassel can break away after 10 turns IF he grows to half the size and population of the master, or losses half of his land from the point that he capitualated. In other words, if he grows at a faster rate than you, or you lose too much population and land in a war while he doesn't, the deal can be broken by the vassel... Also, if you do a bad job protecting him, and he gets beat up pretty bad, lossing over half of his land since you started protecting him, the deal can be broken by the vassel, but again, not by the master.

Also if you demand a resource and the vassel doesn't wish to comply, the deal is broken and a state of war can occur.

And Yes, He can attack you even if pleased with you. The AI can not "make the decision to attack you" if he is Friendly with you. However, there is a catch... If at any time he drops below friendly, even for a single turn, the decision can be made by them to prepare for a future war at that time, and even if he goes back to friendly, attack you.

[Ming]

If the Civilopedia is correct, a voluntary vassal, like in the situation you discribed, can break the deal after 10 turns (but the master can't).

If the vassal deal is based on capitualation in a war, then the vassel can break away after 10 turns IF he grows to half the size and population of the master, or losses half of his land from the point that he capitualated. In other words, if he grows at a faster rate than you, or you lose too much population and land in a war while he doesn't, the deal can be broken by the vassel... Also, if you do a bad job protecting him, and he gets beat up pretty bad, lossing over half of his land since you started protecting him, the deal can be broken by the vassel, but again, not by the master.

Also if you demand a resource and the vassel doesn't wish to comply, the deal is broken and a state of war can occur.

And Yes, He can attack you even if pleased with you. The AI can not "make the decision to attack you" if he is Friendly with you. However, there is a catch... If at any time he drops below friendly, even for a single turn, the decision can be made by them to prepare for a future war at that time, and even if he goes back to friendly, attack you.

[wertyu70]

I just finished the game, an easy victory, I conquered the other continent
in about 20 turns (my tanks against longbows,knights,muskets and some grenadiers),
it's amazing how two finalcial vassals can help your tech rate.
I delayed the invasion because I wanted to keep a lot of soldiers at home,
fearing Ragnar (our power was about the same)
but in the end he has been a loyal voluntary vassal for the whole game.

[Ming]

Voluntary vassals are a real bonus. They usually come to you much stronger than the "non vountary" vassals

You just need to keep an eye on them...

[brandonjm8]

so far all of my volunteer vassals were on or near the bottom of the power graph, im usually on top or near it. have yet to actually get one that helps. exactly what do you get from vassals? is it beakers/gold? how do you see what you are getting as a result from them?

[wertyu70]

The best thing is that you can tell a vassal to research a tech for you,
so you can beeline to your main goal and use him to backfill.
And with latest patch vassals are always willing to trade with you,
both technologies and resources.

If I remember well, you get also an happy face bonus, a diplo penalty and an increase of maintenance cost.

About voluntary vassals, most of the time I got one when I'm ready to attack someone,
so my power is high, usually they are peaceful AI sharing my continent (Mansa, Pacal, Gandhi, Asoka, Hatty), I was quite surprised aobut Ragnar in my last game.

[rah]

As I'm ready to take their capital which has 8 wonders and a shrine, "I'd like to be your vassal". I DON"T THINK SO.

[brandonjm8]

well i have no tech trading/brokering on all the time so i guess vassals serve no purpose other than they are your allies but not permanent, oh well. too bad all the vassals ive gotten suck, lol.

[Ming]

Even without techs, Vassals can still be useful. You get to take advantage of their fortifications and cities, using them as attack points against other civs. You also heal at the same rate in their territory as in your own. They also count at 50% of their pop and land for a domination victory for you.

Throw in the fact that they might actually help you in a war on occasion, and they aren't all that worthless.

[brandonjm8]

im so far advanced that my two are worthless lol, and 2nd is almost as strong as me, oh oh. my vassals are 3rd and 5th and they just got riflemen and ironclads lol. but yes im close to a domination victory with a possible 77,000 score! im over 5000 score wise myself, i have the majority in pop. lol, i have over 250,000,000 myself, and about 40-45% land, need 66% land for the win, need to vassalize 2nd or the weak indians, hmmm, i'll win soon, no space victory or diplo this time im gonna kill someone hehehehehehe, lol

[Ming]

Sounds like it's time for you to move up a level or two