Making friends with aggressive civs.

[Ming]

I sitll get annoyed with the random nature of it all... Last night, I again was in a situation where I was surrounded by AI's on a large Cont. The Americans (not Native) and I were the same religion. Washington was pleased with me, and had been since early in the game when I politely crammed my religion down his throat
We had traded many resources, and our trade routes were profitable.

I also had Monty, Shaka and Peter bordering me... and they were all the same religion and it wasn't mine. Needless to say, they all hated my guts and loved each other like brothers. I was also far ahead on the power graph. And of course, it was Washington, my buddy, who declared war on me first, even though Shaka was his worst enemy from a previous war, and they shared a border.

Sometimes, there is just nothing you can do about it

[rah]

And that's why in the middle game or later I just don't worry about it. What's the point. I understand that Humans can manipulate it better blah blah blah so they want to still make it a challenge but if it's not somewhat consistent, what's the point of playing along with it.

[Ming]

I think the game would be far more enjoyable if indeed there was more logic and consistency to it. I too would pay far more attention to it if it really mattered in the long run

[rah]

Remember there are those that claim it is. And to some degree they're right once you get up to the Friendly level and it's not one of the psychos. But too many demands/requests for me to keep them that friendly. But sometime it works out that way. But then there's always that couple of turns when they drop below and decide it's time.

For those that know the specifics, does it vary by difficulty level?

[Thoth]

I sitll get annoyed with the random nature of it all... Last night, I again was in a situation where I was surrounded by AI's on a large Cont. The Americans (not Native) and I were the same religion. Washington was pleased with me, and had been since early in the game when I politely crammed my religion down his throat
We had traded many resources, and our trade routes were profitable.

I also had Monty, Shaka and Peter bordering me... and they were all the same religion and it wasn't mine. Needless to say, they all hated my guts and loved each other like brothers. I was also far ahead on the power graph. And of course, it was Washington, my buddy, who declared war on me first, even though Shaka was his worst enemy from a previous war, and they shared a border.

That's an ugly bunch to be sharing a continent with. They all have aggressive personalities (and get a hidden "warmonger's respect" diplo bonus with each other), they can (and often will) plan wars against civs they are pleased with, and have strong negative reactions to refused demands.

Washington may have been bribed into the DOW If you have an autosave from a turn or two before the war declaration you could check to see if he's in WHEOOHRN. If he is, then he initiated the war (an AI cannot be bribed into a war if it is already planning one). If he's willing to declare on any of the other AI's or he gives another reason for not being willing to declare then he most likely got bribed into the war.

Sometimes, there is just nothing you can do about it

[Thoth]

Remember there are those that claim it is. And to some degree they're right once you get up to the Friendly level and it's not one of the psychos. But too many demands/requests for me to keep them that friendly. But sometime it works out that way. But then there's always that couple of turns when they drop below and decide it's time.

For those that know the specifics, does it vary by difficulty level?

It varies by AI leader personality. Each one has a different threshold of positive diplo bonuses to get to pleased/friendly. Some are more demanding than others, and the degree to which the AI gets upset varies from leader to leader. Ghandi has very little (no? it's been awhile since he showed up in one of my games) diplo penalty for saying no to a demand. At the other extreme is Cathy who not only makes a lot of demands, she gives a -2 diplo penalty for each refused demand. She's relatively easy to get to pleased, but she's a treacherous snake. She will make war plans against civs she's pleased with, and is the only AI in the game who can be bribed into war with someone she's friendly with.

Friendly AI's can be well worth the effort to get in some circumstances. They will trade monopoly techs, can be bribed into wars with other AIs, won't make war plans against you (if they were already planning a war against you when you got them to pleased, they will still declare as the decision to go to war has already been made.) They'll even vote for you for a diplo victory as long as they like you more than the other candidate.

[rah]

Thanks, some of those I knew, but does it change by difficulty level? It was my impression that it doesn't, but my knowledge in this area is not very good,

[Ming]

I hear what you are saying Thoth... My point is, in my opinion, the diplomacy is just not consistent. I don't think a civ that is "pleased" with you and cautious at best with the other civs should be able to be bribed to declare war on you especially since it rarely works when I ask some civ to do it Usually, unless they are friendly with me, the option to bribe them into declaring war on somebody else isn't even available. I just think diplomacy would be a lot more fun if it was actually logical and consistant.

[Thoth]

Thanks, some of those I knew, but does it change by difficulty level? It was my impression that it doesn't, but my knowledge in this area is not very good,

AFAIK, the number of demands and the AI's reaction to a refused demand doesn't change by difficulty level.

It becomes harder to deter the AI through the power graph as you move up in difficulty as the AIs support and production discounts allow it to field a larger military. Some of the aggressive AIs (Monty and Shaka spring to mind) won't be deterred until your power is twice theirs.

Managing diplomacy gets more important as you move up in levels, founding and running a different religion than the neighbours is a luxury I've learned to forgo.

[Ming]

Managing diplomacy gets more important as you move up in levels, founding and running a different religion than the neighbours is a luxury I've learned to forgo.

Isn't that the truth...
If I found an early religion at the high levels, I will try to convert as many neighbors as possible. If I fail, and another religion becomes dominate, I will switch to it if possible. I may switch to an opposite religion once it gets to the point that I really don't care what any of neighbors think anymore

[rah]

If happiness isn't an issue, I find myself delaying choosing a religion these days for a few reasons.
1. I get the culture bonus for every religion instead of just one.
2. I don't waste a turn in anarchy. (assuming I'm not spiritual)
3. I get to see which religion wins the most advantageous to convert to award.

[Blaupanzer]

Thanks, some of those I knew, but does it change by difficulty level? It was my impression that it doesn't, but my knowledge in this area is not very good,

In terms of diplomacy and religion, the AIs don't rise in difficulty level past Noble. They stay at Noble, no matter what level you play at. So, no, it doesn't change by difficulty level, but it does change based on history. For example, as noted Ghandi is impervious to demand refusals, UNLESS you declared war on him earlier in the game. War declarations crank up a bunch of the AIs in their future responses.

Anyone know if the AIs make these requests/demands on each other. It would appear they will extort techs, but are not really asking each other for help. That impression is based on results observation, not on any code I've spotted.

[brandonjm8]

In terms of diplomacy and religion, the AIs don't rise in difficulty level past Noble. They stay at Noble, no matter what level you play at. So, no, it doesn't change by difficulty level, but it does change based on history. For example, as noted Ghandi is impervious to demand refusals, UNLESS you declared war on him earlier in the game. War declarations crank up a bunch of the AIs in their future responses.

Anyone know if the AIs make these requests/demands on each other. It would appear they will extort techs, but are not really asking each other for help. That impression is based on results observation, not on any code I've spotted.

ive noticed only "worst enemy", i too havent noticed anything like "you refused to trade with our worst enemy" or something of that nature, i have noticed on rare occasion "you've traded with our worst enemy" a few times between two AI's before, not much tho. as far as demands go, ive yet to see an AI do it to another. if im wrong or if people have, lemme know, thx.

[Theben]

If I found an early religion at the high levels, I will try to convert as many neighbors as possible. If I fail, and another religion becomes dominate, I will switch to it if possible. I may switch to an opposite religion once it gets to the point that I really don't care what any of neighbors think anymore

I'm playing a game where I had Monty and the Incas on my continent and DoWed both early to nab unescorted settlers and minimize their expansion. Later the Inca religion popped up in one of my cities and even tho I had my own I adopted his. He became my buddy and after I overran the Aztecs he offered to be my vassal.

Having religion
Having an AI religion

[Theben]