Making friends with aggressive civs.

[rah]

tok is harder than the rest since he won't open borders with you at first. If you get lucky on a religion spread maybe. But that's the part I don't understand, I can get pleased with them, which doesn't stop the inevitable attack. But I don't see how you can get to friendly fast enough to stop them. But then of course when they demand iron, I never give it to them.

[wodan11]

When you start the game you're a soccer ball on top of a hill. Once the ball starts rolling in one direction it's going to keep going that way barring herculean efforts.

So, whatever you do early is going to nudge the ball in one direction or the other. Something as simple as acceding to first demand, or a voluntary gift of a tech to get him to cease trading to a neighbor on the other side, will do the trick.

One of my favorite tactics is to gift Fishing to a landlocked AI. They value it the same.

[rah]

Tougher with tech trading off (my norm) so you have to wait to gift him a resource that you have multiples of. (excluding military resources of course)
Early in the game this is unlikely. But I like the fishing move.

[wodan11]

I usually play brokering off but trading on.

Also, I might dispute your "have to" assumption. Is it worth giving Monty your only rice for 10 turns if that means he's likely to jagrush somebody else? Absolutely!

And that's true whether you are peaceful, thinking of fighting someone else, or thinking of fighting Monty himself (wait till maybe 10-15 turns after he DOW's them and has plenty of time to get his jags in their territory, and then the world is your oyster). All for 1 rice for 10 turns? Where do I sign up?

[rah]

Actually Monty is my preferred pyscho. I like him next to me because he's so predictable. As soon as he hooks his iron, here he comes. A few axes and a single spearmen will devistate his first rush since he never waits for cats. He'll lose all his jags against the first city and then you can march in and relieve him of all his territory. And since it happens early it doesn't matter that much that he didn't build anything since you'll have plenty of time to build the infrastructure.

[Ming]

Yep... was playing a game last night with Monty as my neighbor... and he was true to form. We were different religions, so I knew he was coming. His first stack was semi-impressive, but no cats yet. Usually, I don't let people directly attack my cities (the best defense is a strong offense), but in this case, they walked right up to the city, they didn't pillage, and then destroyed themselves attacking the city. 12 turns later I had his capital. After that, it was a simple mop up. And yes, his capital had very little infrastructure and no wonders. But it was a holy city with shrine and had two generals attached

[rah]

Yeah, I always note which civs pop the early religions and my mouth starts to water when I see the completed shrine notifications and they're my close neighbor.

[Hauptman]

Tokagawa is actually a great friend to have if you can meet 2 requirements. First is share a religion. That one is of course game dependant, but no where near as important, as he really doesnt care much either way.

The real trick to making Toke like you is... join him in 1 single war that he asks you for. Usually, when i see him next to me and he asks for a dow. i accept. even if it's against a "friendly" civ. Well, especially if they are friendly. Most of them will forgive a dow or 2, and remain pleased. Tok then no longer sees you as one of them, grants you open borders, and since he NEVER has open borders with non allies, he will then not DOW you even though he loves mercantilism and has no use for trade routes.

Then once the gunpowder age hits, his tech rate falters (mercantilism) and he falls behind, see's you as his only friend and asks for protection (vassal). Every game I've played to him, he's asked. and one game where I didnt.

Monty, well... I've had an OOC game where i was on an island with him, and figured I had to give that a shot. Joined him in every war, gave him all but the most secret techs. Kept him friendly the entire game! He still attacked and lost the game for me by pilaging my squares during the SS build. Yeh, no pleasing Monty.

[rah]

It depends on the land also. Yeah, if I really work at it, I can get Tok pleased. Usually if I get a lucky religion spread that then gets me an open border. But if the board position is that I'm blocking him from expanding and I'm the only way out, that first DOW is usually against me so I never get the opportunity to join him in a war.

[Dinner]

Honestly, I don't bother making friends with most aggressive AI civs. Instead if they start close to my starting position then I just figure conflict is inevitable so I plan to kill them before they kill me.

[rah]

I like them having my religion so when I take them out, I don't have to convert them

While I generally agree with you, if you can get somewhat friendly, some times their first attack will be against another neighbor which allows you to gut them quite easily.

[Nancy08]

I got you point.




It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow. - Robert H. Goddard, 1882-1945

A sense of humor is part of the art of leadership, of getting along with people, of getting things done. - Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1890-1969

Good ideas are not adopted automatically. They must be driven into practice with courageous patience. - Hyman Rickover, 1900-1986

[rah]

The only points I want to see Nancy..................
We want naked pictures.

Anyone dumb enough not to figure out this bot, probably shouldn't be taking an IQ test.

[Blaupanzer]

Having the crazies attack someone else first not only provides opportunity to use the force you were building up for defense to attack them, but gives you a plus up on your new neighbor when the two of you "allies" dissolve the crazy.

[rah]

EXACTLY