Getting started on Civ4 for a Civ2 vet

[ybrevo]

DaveV!

Thousands thanks for the link to Sulla´s walkthrough - I have enjoyed it all day, though I have played quite a few games on Noble already. It is the most inspiring and funny walkthrough I have seen for CIV4 so far.

I also think Noble is the best level to start as a CIV2 veteran. Especially combined with some hints from all the Apolyton professors

Anyway, it made my switch from the old bad habits to the upgrade much easier.

ybrevo

[conmcb25]

Throw the old ICS mentality out the window. As was mentioned previously the waste and corruption is gone, and increasing city maintenance is in.

That means fewer well placed cities, hopefully well placed enough to take advantage of working multipole resources and/ or working to your civ's trait advanatges.

In other words it doesn't pay to spam cities any longer.

[Blaupanzer]

LOTM,

Welcome back to the gaming side! This is the best version since CIV 2, maybe the best ever. Most of the good advice is already above. If you have the whole set, install the game and both expansions, then play the BTS version with the 3.17 patch (+ the unofficial patch if you wish). Try Noble to start. As you figure things out, you cn move up. With leaders with individual traits and civs with unique buildings and national units the initial selection is kind of a kaleidoscope that channels your subsequent strategies to some extent. Very impressive design work on that and on the AI performance.

[Theben]

Originally posted by snoopy369
That is incorrect. Only Chieftain and Warlord get workers or settlers from huts.

Only if BtS changed it from vanilla. I know for a fact that I got workers from huts at Noble (in vanilla).

[snoopy369]

You know wrong, then. This has been true in every version of civ since the beginning. I remember it quite specifically, in fact, and you can look in the XML if you want.

Noble from Civ4HandicapInfo.xml from Vanilla Civ4:

			<Goodies>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_HIGH_GOLD</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_HIGH_GOLD</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_HIGH_GOLD</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_MAP</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_MAP</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_WARRIOR</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_WARRIOR</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_SCOUT</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_EXPERIENCE</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_EXPERIENCE</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_HEALING</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_TECH</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_TECH</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_WEAK</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_WEAK</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_STRONG</GoodyType>
			</Goodies>

[lord of the mark]

oh dear, I started my first game on chieftain, but dropped it about 500 BC when I was dominating despite just barely getting the hang of the interface.

I started a second game on warlord, and Im again winning (beware my Greek Jewish empire! ) and I probably should drop this and go on to Noble, but Im kind of attached to the game, ya know? Im at about 900 CE (AD)

Oh, and I was never a big fan of ICS anyway.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Grim Legacy
One thing that you may find useful is to play a "custom game". You can disable things that you don't like that way.

Prime candidates are things like Random Events and perhaps Espionage. I initially disabled the latter because it seemed like an additional complication that a starter could do without. I'm also a Civ1/2/3 veteran (not played 3 that much either), and have recently picked up #4.

I'm not a fan of starting at easy levels of difficulty. I was used to maxing the level in the previous civ incarnations... Having said that, Monarch seems like all the challenge you will need for a start. Beyond that I found it much harder. I am working on Emperor now.

He only has vanilla civ currently.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
oh dear, I started my first game on chieftain, but dropped it about 500 BC when I was dominating despite just barely getting the hang of the interface.

I started a second game on warlord, and Im again winning (beware my Greek Jewish empire! ) and I probably should drop this and go on to Noble, but Im kind of attached to the game, ya know? Im at about 900 CE (AD)

Oh, and I was never a big fan of ICS anyway.

Most players are thinking of the improved AI that comes with BtS when they gave you advice.


You should be able to do reasonable on Noble or even Prince with the gamining experience you have.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Theben


Only if BtS changed it from vanilla. I know for a fact that I got workers from huts at Noble (in vanilla).

I have always played on Noble and I have never recieved a Worker from a hut.

[Blaupanzer]

LOTM
As I suspected, you are doing fine below Noble. Now get BTS and update to the latest and greatest. Noble can be a bit of a challenge at BTS, due to all the new concepts and the improved AI. Start a custom game, so you can choose religions, turn on Aggressive AI and raging barbarians, and (to avoid an exploit) turn off diplomatic victory. THIS is the game that will feel like CIV 2, although a good deal more complex.

After two years, I'm finally moving up to Monarch on occasion, after playing at Noble to get good, then at Prince until I often could win (not all the time). To me, BTS is a real challenge, especially if you don't start off as a wargame, but progress to it.

[trev]

One major difference that has not been mentioned is that buildings no longer cost money, instead cities do, and a increase in city numbers increases the maintainance cost of all cities, not just the one you built or captured, so not too many cities until your economy is running well.
Also clearing forests contributes hammers to your build queue, so that is a quick way to build units in case of war etc or to finish a wonder quickly.
Learn how to use specialists to get Great People and their uses.
I have found that the larger the map, the more difficult it is to win, Immortal level is winnable with experience and small maps and militarily good traits, larger maps need to drop 1 or 2 levels, deity is virtually unwinnable fullstop.

[Blaupanzer]

Fullstop!

[lord of the mark]

quick reactions

the good

1. its hard for me to comment on the gameplay yet, as I dont feel deep enough in to comment intelligently on issues like balance, etc. For the most part it works pretty well - I like the culture and religion stuff, the city management and terrain improvement. And the combat seems to be handled well. The diplo is much improved, and im still figuring it out. In general they've handled the old stuff well, and the new stuff works and adds both to the game and the flavor.


2. Atmospherics
A. Graphics - I admit to being leary of the 3d, animations, and all (sure wasnt so great in TOT or SMAC) I am pleasantly surprised, it really works pretty well, draws one in

B. Sound = the music is outstanding. From Baba Yetu to the background music. Very nice. Nimoy is good enough.

C. Extras - the wonder videos, leader heads, etc are good enough

Whats not as bad as I feared.
A civ specific stuff. I was part of the Civ3 debate about civ specific stuff, and i was against both cause it took away from the clean slate geographic determinism of Civ, and cause of the implicit racial determinism. In CIv 4 the attributes belong to leaders, not civs, and while thats kinda goofy and doesnt really fit the geo determinism either, at least its not implicitly racialist. Which leaves the unique units, which no longer drive golden ages and so are less important. Bottom line - I can live with it.

The Camel - I realize lots of folks hated the micro, and of course they were overpowered. But I loved em, and thats one of the things I expected to miss. well sure enough the new trade system, while easier to manage, is boring. But at least teh great merchant gives me a little taste of the old camel movement.


Stuff that could be better
The tech tree - its functional gameplay wise. And its not historically inaccurate, and in some ways is more accurate than the old Civ2 one. But damn, its dull. It doesn't have the humor and the clever historical insights that the civ2 tech tree did.

[lord of the mark]

more - integrating health, pollution, city size limits together was done cleverly.

Ditto for integrating city maintenance and corruption (and yeah, that IS still corruption, why else do you think it goes down when you build a court house)

Some things are still teh same - I still make silly mistake cause I click too fast and carelessly. Now I also have to remember when I want a Cat to bombard, not to have it do a conv attack.

I still find myself with workers I dont know what to do with at a certain point - unlike Civ2 (but like SMAC, etc) I cant just found cities with them.

I still tend both to let peace go too long, and to start wars with inadequate preparation.

[Heraclitus]

what about Liberalism leading to Communism? I find that a bit funny

Or that Mount Rushmore is enabled by Fascism

Yes Corruption is still there but it doesn't affect production like it did in civ3. That is why most people say its "gone".