Getting started on Civ4 for a Civ2 vet

[lord of the mark]

Hi all.

I played a lot of civ 2 back in the day. Not super serious, never played MP, or became a big strategy maven, but got to the point where I could win on Deity using my preferred rational perfectionist strategy much of the time. Then I started mainly playing scenarios, and contributed to one.

I skipped Civ3, and just bought Civ4.

Looking for a few suggestions for getting started -

1. Whats a good level to start at - the hardest? next to hardest?

2. I like a nice long, gradual game, but think getting started maybe medium settings on world size and game pace are best?

3. Best to dive in without any tutorial? I am glancing through the hard copy (abbridged) manual.


4. Key differences from Civ2?


Note Ive played some SMAC, so changes like borders, are familiar to me.

[rjmatsleepers]

Re: Getting started on Civ4 for a Civ2 vet

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Hi all.

I played a lot of civ 2 back in the day. Not super serious, never played MP, or became a big strategy maven, but got to the point where I could win on Deity using my preferred rational perfectionist strategy much of the time. Then I started mainly playing scenarios, and contributed to one.

I skipped Civ3, and just bought Civ4.

Looking for a few suggestions for getting started -

1. Whats a good level to start at - the hardest? next to hardest?

2. I like a nice long, gradual game, but think getting started maybe medium settings on world size and game pace are best?

3. Best to dive in without any tutorial? I am glancing through the hard copy (abbridged) manual.


4. Key differences from Civ2?


Note Ive played some SMAC, so changes like borders, are familiar to me.

1. I'd advise you to start at the next to lowest level. Very few game skills transfer from Civ 2 to Civ 4.

2. At the default settings, I find the games long enough and gradual enough. Try one and see how you feel.

3. Dive in if you start at a low level; go for a turorial if you try to start close to the highest level.

4. Where to start . Resources must be developed and hooked up. No caravans (trade routes are automatic, although value can be influenced by strategy. Borders are determined by culture. Religions open up buildings and wonders. Corporations can give you resources and money. Different leaders have different capabilities, starting techs, unique buildings and unique units. Many more government options (civics). No rush buying except with the appropriate civic. No transfer of partial builds to something else. No building wonders from vans. Great people can give you a useful building or more research, hammers, money, etc. and can initiate a Golden Age during which research and production is enhanced. No growth by celebration. Random events - good and bad. (That will do for the moment!)

RJM

[Jaybe]

Mention of Corporations and Random Events refer to the Beyond the Sword expansion pack (highly recommended), not to the vanilla Civ4.

[Willem]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
1. Whats a good level to start at - the hardest? next to hardest?

yes, RJM's suggestion is pretty good. You're going to need to learn a whole new game so don't set your bar too high or you're going to be frustrated. There's alot to learn with this one, much more so than Civ2.

2. I like a nice long, gradual game, but think getting started maybe medium settings on world size and game pace are best?

Personally I think you'd be better off playing Marathon. It gives you lots of time to get used to the units and combat in the game since they don't go obsolete nearly as quickly. You also have much more time to make the decisions about how your civ is going to develop as well since your research time is also slower which makes it a bit esier to change direction if you feel it's needed.

3. Best to dive in without any tutorial? I am glancing through the hard copy (abbridged) manual.

I personally didn't get much out of the tutorial. It's pretty basic and mainly covers alot of things you probably already know from Civ 2.

4. Key differences from Civ2?

Mega! Your best bet is to try and forget everything you learned from Civ 2 and approach it as a completely new game. Don't go into it thinking you can apply the same techniques you used back then, they simply won't work anymore. There's really very little in the way of similarities between the two games.

[lord of the mark]

re:difficulty level

Its not just that I've played Civ2, but that I've played several other civish games both TB and otherwise - specifically, SMAC, MOO, RON, a bit of Colonization, and several Paradox games. I realize even less transfers, but is it really that overwhelming? Also, I don't want to develop bad habits - in lots of games (and esp in Civ2) on lower levels you can begin to rely on strategies that simply will not work at higher levels.

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
re:difficulty level

Its not just that I've played Civ2, but that I've played several other civish games both TB and otherwise - specifically, SMAC, MOO, RON, a bit of Colonization, and several Paradox games. I realize even less transfers, but is it really that overwhelming? Also, I don't want to develop bad habits - in lots of games (and esp in Civ2) on lower levels you can begin to rely on strategies that simply will not work at higher levels.

It's certainly true that strategies that work at lower level will fail higher. But (IMO) it's worth playing a little at lower levels just to get a feel for things. Play through to (say) AD1 at a low level. If things are going well start a new game at the next level. If you start at too high a level you risk losing without being able to learn very much from the experience. But hell, it's a game - play it the way you enjoy it.

RJM

[Grim Legacy]

One thing that you may find useful is to play a "custom game". You can disable things that you don't like that way.

Prime candidates are things like Random Events and perhaps Espionage. I initially disabled the latter because it seemed like an additional complication that a starter could do without. I'm also a Civ1/2/3 veteran (not played 3 that much either), and have recently picked up #4.

I'm not a fan of starting at easy levels of difficulty. I was used to maxing the level in the previous civ incarnations... Having said that, Monarch seems like all the challenge you will need for a start. Beyond that I found it much harder. I am working on Emperor now.

[Diadem]

Starting at the next to lowest level is unneeded.

However I do recommend playing through the tutorial. It gives some good explanations of some key game concepts that you'll be unfamiliar with.

After that you can easily start at prince. I'm not saying you'll immidiately win, but you should be doing good enough to learn a lot. More than you'll learn from starting at too low a level (since you might learn wrong strategies then).

Take some time reading the civilopedia though.

Oh, and the MOST IMPORTANT difference between civ4 and civ2 hasn't even been mentioned: Commerce is not gained through roads anymore! instead of two basic upgrades (mines and irrigation (renamed farms)) you now have three: Farms, Mines and Cottages. The latter generate commerce, the other two do not.

Cottages grow over time, they start out giving very little, but once they mature they'll rule. In most situations they will be your main source of commerce (and thus gold and science). Other important sources are resources, rivertiles and specialists.

It takes some getting used to at the start, you have to build up your economy differently, but once you get used to it it's a good system.

[sowings]

Re: Getting started on Civ4 for a Civ2 vet

Originally posted by lord of the mark
4. Key differences from Civ2?

Significant for me (because of my warfare style) was the fact that siege weapons aren't capturable anymore. They're just units like any other, now.

[joncnunn]

1. I'd recomend first trying Noble which is as close to even as there is. If you get your head handed to you then drop to Warlord.

2. I'd recomend first trying Medium map & medium pace and then ounce you get the hang of it scale from there.

3. Well, the tutorial is more of a get familar with the interface tool than actual startegy. There's some built in help options advaible at all levels by default that you can turn off such as good tiles within the current city to improve, productation builds, etc.

4. No point road spamming; no improvements get improved by roads and only mines, querries, and lumbermills benifit from rail.
Roads/Rails inside someone's cultural boundary don't work for the enemy in times of war.
No transpasing in times of peace allowed without open borders except for Caravels / Spys/ Great Spys.
No city may be placed within 2 tiles of any other.
Civ 2's corupution waste model and unit support model are replaced with civic costs & unit costs to the treasury.
Techs cost are variable and accordingly the AI values more expensive techs more than cheaper ones.
Progress towards tech A can't be used towards tech B; if you switch though you can resume A with no tech loss.
Progress towards any unit or build A can't be used towards unit or build B. If you switch, the hammer progress will erode over time.

[Cort Haus]

I think it's massively different from any of the previous Civ-type games.

City specialisation is important - especially science (lots of developed cottages) and production (irrigation and mines for units and wonders). Also have a commerce city (either a holy city with special building from a great prophet or a merchant city) and a GPP farm (lots of food and specialists).

Don't expand too fast without developing your economy as maintenance can break your civ, and build a mix of units - the old single unit spam doesn't work too well. Take big stacks with lots of catapults for bombarding when conquering.

Diplomacy requires you to pick your friends and your enemies and stick with it. Befriending and trading with everyone will mean that everyone hates you.

Wonders are much lower power than before and if you build too many you will suffer.

There's a lot more crap terrain, so not all cities can be good.

[joncnunn]

The following terraigns in Civ IV aren't much value at all:

Peaks (Civ II Name: Mountains) : In Civ IV non-enterable and non workable

Sea Ice: Unenterable except to Subs. Non workable

Desert: Only workable if contains a resource, along a river, or hilly.

Land Ice: Unless it contains a resource can only place a watermill there (also requires it to be along a river)

Tundra: Only workable if contains a resource, has direct access to fresh water (river or fresh water lake), contains a forest, or hilly.

Also note you need Civil Service to chain irrigate, which must come from river or fresh water lake. If the chain is broken all tiles past it lose the effect of irrigation.

[DaveV]

More differences from Civ2: most attackers will only kill one unit in a stack, instead of the entire stack. Attack and defense are no longer separate numbers; a single strength is used for both, but there are lots of special flags that give, for example, extra strength against archery units.

As for difficulty level, I'd agree that Noble is a good starting level. The AI is a lot better than earlier Civ games, and there are lots of new wrinkles to sort out. Some strategies that work well at lower levels are hard to pull off at higher levels (e.g. multiple religions, wonder spam, ultra-early rush), but you can figure that out later. Instead of the tutorial, I'd recommend reading Sullla's walkthrough.

[Theben]

Noble or Prince to start I'd say, the main difference between the two is that at Prince-> you won't get workers or settlers from huts anymore.

[snoopy369]

That is incorrect. Only Chieftain and Warlord get workers or settlers from huts.

Noble is a fine difficulty level to start with, expect to move up to prince soon if you do well.