Are castles underused? If so, how would you remedy it?

[Heraclitus]

I think that castles are there for too short a period. Making them real cheap would just lead to silly situations. We should make the castle have a longer shelf life and be more usefull.

I’m just going to start throwing around ideas.

Moving their obsolescence to gunpowder is reasonable but metallurgy is what really allows castle busting canons, firing a musket at a big stone wall just won’t do. Here is a thought, if units and buildings can require two or even more techs to be available, why can they require two to be obsolete?


Why not have them provide a free drill promotion to Archer units? Or make them have a healing effect on units similar to hospitals, since they will go obsolete long before hospitals even if we extend their life-span?


Why not give them and other buildings, a culture bonus after they go obsolete? I mean a perfectly preserved medieval castle or an ancient Roman monument have cultural value in the real world? You could object that they don’t “produce” culture, that is true but, you could give them a 15% or so, bonus on culture. Making sure the player needs to invest something into the city before reaping the benfits.

[wodan11]

Moving the obsolescence to Cannons (Steel, I think) makes sense.

I believe they already continue to provide culture even after obsolence, just like Monasteries.

Wodan

[Sabre2th]

Originally posted by wodan11
Moving the obsolescence to Cannons (Steel, I think) makes sense.

I believe they already continue to provide culture even after obsolence, just like Monasteries.

Wodan

They do continue to provide culture, but it's only +1. I think additional bonuses would definitely make them more interesting. I know I generally only build them if I need them for an event.

Good ideas, Heraclitus.

[fani]

They also provide +25% EP's and an additional trade route to the city....but i agree that they become obsolete quickly....I think they should last until Chemistry...if not Steel...

[Heraclitus]

Steel is the best idea till now.

Maybe they should provide a happines bonus under serfdom or V. ?

[Jaybe]

From my post #8 in the PolyCast #39 thread:
"re Castles (and walls), a solution is to make them NOT ignored by gunpowder units (by changing bIgnoreBuildingDefense in CIV4UnitInfos for each unit)!"

Exclusions: Gunships, Artillery & Mobile Artillery, Aircraft ... because their ordinance doesn't go through wall, it comes in through the ROOF. Infantry, Mech Infantry and armor units are NOT excluded.

[Sabre2th]

Armor is not likely to have difficulty with a stone wall...

[wodan11]

Originally posted by Sabre2th

They do continue to provide culture, but it's only +1.

It becomes +2 after a thousand years. That said, it wouldn't seem out of order to give them a base +2 that becomes +4.

Wodan

[Fleme]

Castle
+1
+25% EP
+1 Route
+50% Defense (altered: also against Gunpowder units prior to the discovery of Steel)
-25% Damage to Defenses from Bombardment
(New) 50% less collateral damage
(New) Can draft 1 unit per turn
Double production speed for Protective Leaders
Trade Route and Espionage bonuses obsoleted by Economics
Defensive bonuses obsoleted by Steel

That should do it.

[Heraclitus]

good concept

[wodan11]

Fleme, so your version allows you to continue making castles, and also to continue drafting and trade routes all the way to the future era?

Wodan

[Fleme]

No no, the military applications obsolete at Steel and the commercial/espionage at Economics. The drafting represents the (feudal) lords calling the serfs to arms (surely castles have an armory and historically peasants did form military units when ordered by their masters. Drafted green units represent this.) and the collateral damage reduction should be there to begin with.

Castles that survive today are nothing but sights and the 1/2 represents that just fine.

[joncnunn]

I think the main reason castles aren't built much is the shortness of the window you have to build them.

[snoopy369]

Drafting units would make that unworkable (nationhood: draft 3 units TOTAL per turn... at the expense of using a civic that's otherwise not as good as several others in its tree).

I think joncnunn has hit it on the head... They added the trade route, which certainly makes it worth building if you're in a teching game (combine the power bonus, the trade bonus, and the EP bonus, and it is certainly buildable, especially to PROT leaders), but in any other game it's not that valuable.

Don't assume making it defend against gunpowder units is a change with no side effects, also: One of the major values of Musketeers etc. are that they are able to ignore walls. A 9 unpromoted musketeer is worth more than an 8 maceman with CR2, if there are no walls protecting the inhabitants of the city...

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by wodan11

It becomes +2 after a thousand years. That said, it wouldn't seem out of order to give them a base +2 that becomes +4.

Wodan

I do not rember reading that in the Civilopedia or seeing it in the game. Are you sure this is in :bts: 3.13? Do any other buildings get extra cultrue or effect after some time?



The only thing similar to this that I rember is the turism of C3C wonders (which was a good concept).