Sick of the Disc

[Wiglaf]

Sigh... I know it is becoming legal in many countries, but it is still illegal in many countries and specficially in the US.

Using a CD hack for a privately owned game is completely legal here, regardless of what the EULA says.

And to clarify... I'm not claiming anybody has an illegal copy... just making it clear that the site policy doesn't allow discussion of illegal use of software, even by legal owners

It's understandable you don't want to mass distribute the hacks because that can aid illegal users. But providing this guy a hack is reasonable, he's a longtime user and all that ****.

[Solver]

As an alternative option, you can make a copy of the disc. The trick is, if you simply copy the disk it won't work due to protection, but some software will allow you to create a fully working copy. You'd still need to carry it around of course, but at least it's no big problem if you lose or damage it. Creating a backup copy like that is legal in most jurisdictions, including the US, I believe.

[snoopy369]

That's probably legal, though the DMCA would like to make it illegal. The software that 'will allow you to create a fully working copy' is (probably) illegal in the US, under the DMCA. It's unclear territory (because the various parts of the DMCA are of dubious constitutionality), and will be determined in the courts in the next few decades; but at least for now it's considered illegal.

Wiglaf... I don't particularly want to argue this here, but read the DMCA sometime. Any hack that gets around copy protection - whether the user is allowed to use the software or not - is illegal, and that includes cd's. And, regardless of legality, this site prefers to maintain good relations with several publishers and developers, and they generally object to no-cd hacks (or else they wouldn't require the CD, obviously).

[Wiglaf]

Wiglaf... I don't particularly want to argue this here, but read the DMCA sometime. Any hack that gets around copy protection - whether the user is allowed to use the software or not - is illegal, and that includes cd's. And, regardless of legality, this site prefers to maintain good relations with several publishers and developers, and they generally object to no-cd hacks (or else they wouldn't require the CD, obviously).

First off, the DMCA was never intended to prohibit legitimate commerical users from using a no-cd key. Second, the provision you're referring to (the one that prohibits making/using cracks) also explicitly allows fair use and has a primary intent requirement (you must be breaking copyright law, eg by stealing music). Third, the DMCA has never been used in court to prosecute a nefarious Civ4 no-cd crack user, and it never will be.

It's fine to have the site policy to not advertise no-cd cracks but coming down hard on anyone who mentions them is just absurd.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
It's fine to have the site policy to not advertise no-cd cracks but coming down hard on anyone who mentions them is just absurd.

Uhhh... can you please show me "WHERE" we have come down hard on somebody... It is our standard policy to always post a warning and take no action against the poster. Now, if the person continues to do so... or then posts a link AFTER a warning, that's something else entirely.

If a game publisher provides a legal no cd hack, we have no problem with that... but unless they do, we don't allow discussion on how to do it or find one.

Again, there are plenty of other places where you can find that information.... this site just isn't one of them

[Unimatrix11]

Here comes my 2 cents on this:

I can totally understand that apolyton will NOT help anyone do something that MIGHT be illegal in ANY country. I could help the thread-starter with his problem, but i wont (not via PM either), even tho poly´s policy is not my own. When in rome do as the romans. Simple as that.

I mean, where do we get, when one of the most frequented forums of a game starts to pass around info that could totally easily be abused to acquire the software illegally (read: without buying it) ?

I am actually a bit startled, that this thread didnt get deleted right away, with a PM to the starter by some admin, telling him not to ask such a question again.

Dr. Faustus can, by what has been said here, deduce that, yes, there is a way, but it wont kill him to figure it out on his own, and thus make him stronger (refering to his sig).

And Wiglaf: Where would you draw the line, between ´mass publishing´ and ´passing it out to longtime users´. I do believe Dr. Faustus did not lie, but in theory, anyone telling a neat little story (and there is no other indication than that to me that Dr. Faustus would be a long time user ) would qualify then ? And schwuuups, you are mass-publishing it...

I hope Dr. Faustus will understand, that his ´problem´ wont get fixed here.

(I am no admin or anything - but thats what i´d say, if i was - EDIT: And while i was writing this, one actually did )

EDIT2: Again to wiglaf: Since information is contained in words, if i was an admin here, i would delete threads like this right away, as soon as a certain vocabulary showed up - you know, words that the OP didnt mention. And if i was a programmer and responsible in any way for the content of this forum beyond what i have written myself, i´d even try to have that deletion-process automated.

[Jaybe]

DrFaustus, I would speculate that your problem is that your civ-playing stints aren't long enough.
Embrace the disc, play the game for several hours before bothering to take the disc out to replace it with another.

Personally, I NEVER take the disc out (except to clean it or get the PC to recognize it). OTOH, I'm using a desktop and it's only use is civving.

[PohlSE]

I'm not so sure I would delete the entire thread; the subject of playing with or without a CD (and what constitutes legal and illegal usage) is an interesting one.

I play Civ on my laptop more than anything (easier to shirk my duties without being found out ) but I've never considered finding a way to not use the disk for the very reason that have been stated here; legality issues.

The fact that I never considered buying it online makes me feel like a horses ass, though.

[snoopy369]

One thing I will note - you can buy D2D Beyond the Sword, and not require a disc, even if you bought Disc Civ4 Vanilla. You need a disc to play the original or warlords, but not BtS... so if you wanted to buy BtS anyway, you should consider direct2drive (or Steam, I imagine Steam works the same way).

[Dale]

Originally posted by Ming
If a game publisher provides a legal no cd hack, we have no problem with that... but unless they do, we don't allow discussion on how to do it or find one.

Hehehe..... careful with that one. A few of us got the first BtS patch which didn't check for a CD before it got taken down. I played with that one for months before the next patch.

So yeah, the publisher DID distribute a legal no-CD patch.

(Admittedly they released another patch to over-ride that within 24 hours which had the CD check again).

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Unimatrix11
I can totally understand that apolyton will NOT help anyone do something that MIGHT be illegal in ANY country.

QFT. I completely understand the policy, even though I personally use nocd cracks for all my games.

[ZEE]

Until Firaxis gives the go for the CD key to be used (and not by accident like the 1st BTS patch Dale mentioned) i agree that CD Key threads should just be locked, OP warned, and moving right along...

[martin mcmartin]

I can't keep myself from holding back....

I think it is very important, especially in such an big forum, to discuss issues like hacking and illegal software. this is a mature forum, with mature users, and it is visible in all posts. that is why it is the only forum I am in. although that the the forums policy is not to discuss these things, they should be discussed! DrFaustus himself is responsible for any problems that occur with the hack, if they occur. I think it should be possible for other users to explain what can be done about it to solve the problem, AND to let him know if it would be a good idea to use illegal software. not to encourage somebody to use hacks ofcourse. but that is IMO not what has been happening in this post.

to make my point more clear, compare it with a subject like child abuse. if it is not discussed, nothing is done about it. same here. if the post would have been deleted right away, DrFaustus would not have read al our opinions about whether it is a good idea to go the "illegal" way.

I, for instance, am a total "no download, nothing illegal, no cd-rip" person. I am against illegal things, but I like the discussion, because now I know where others stand....

my opinion about DrFaustus? I think he is a wuzzie for complaining about his cd. just don't think about it, put the thing in and play! the game takes for ages anyway, so one minute extra, what the h*ck..

[Krill]

Originally posted by Modo44

QFT. I completely understand the policy, even though I personally use nocd cracks for all my games.

QFMFT.

[Dale]

Originally posted by martin mcmartin
I think it should be possible for other users to explain what can be done about it to solve the problem, AND to let him know if it would be a good idea to use illegal software.

The problem with a global public forum such as this, and the dynamic and differing nature of laws and public opinions, is that quite often things like this are a grey area for legality.

For instance, as an Aussie it is perfectly legal for me to use certain things that someone else legally cannot.

I believe Poly has to make a compromise, for both legal and conscience reasons. Therefore having forum policy against such actions is of course, the only course of action.

PS: Note that it is still illegal to use pirated software, or total reconstructions of software. It is only legal to use a modification that stops the CD check (though you still may need to use the CD for software assets).