Brennus as a warmonger?

[wodan11]

Sometimes I "give in" to a demand simply because whenever you give or ask for tribute, the game forces a 10 turn peace treaty on both sides.

So, if I'm not ready for war, or, perhaps, I know Monty is at war with my buddy and he's doing okay so I know he's not going to get creamed and -- with apologies to Michael Vick and all that but I don't have a dog in that fight -- so I don't want my buddy to ask me to join the war against Monty because I'll then have to say yes or suffer a negative diplo with my buddy.... by saying yes I get a +1 with Monty AND I don't suffer a -1 with my buddy.

Wodan

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by LzPrst
as wodan says. with Combat I you quickly get access to some very nice and nifty upgrades with barracks xp, and another with vass. or theo. just by barb stomping you get your units up to level 4, halfways to 5. no matter what you say, when that is your standard, your troops will rip to shreds for example a non-agg/prot/chm civ. and really give a hard time to those as well. maybe I'll run a Boudicea wargame to show you the power of xp...

There is an important difference though. The AGG/CHA civ has to pay to switch to the military civics so it either gets +2/4 XP or it doesn’t. If it is playing with those civics then it misses out on peacetime civics.

The CHA/SPI civ will almost always jump into the +4 XP civics are times of war so will tend to have units with more XP than the AGG civic. In fact, either

a) The AGG civ will lose lots of turns to anarchy (giving the SPI civ a big production and commerce advantage), or
b) The AGG will not get as much advantage from the religious/labour civics (various benefits foregone), or
c) AGG units will have a smaller XP.

In practice, the AGG suffer from a combination of these disadvantages which is a lot for a Combat I promotion to make up. Note also that Combat I is not given to naval, air, mounted, siege or archer units. In short, it ain’t all that great

[Theben]

Originally posted by couerdelion


There is an important difference though. The AGG/CHA civ has to pay to switch to the military civics so it either gets +2/4 XP or it doesn’t. If it is playing with those civics then it misses out on peacetime civics.

The CHA/SPI civ will almost always jump into the +4 XP civics are times of war so will tend to have units with more XP than the AGG civic. In fact, either

a) The AGG civ will lose lots of turns to anarchy (giving the SPI civ a big production and commerce advantage), or
b) The AGG will not get as much advantage from the religious/labour civics (various benefits foregone), or
c) AGG units will have a smaller XP.

In practice, the AGG suffer from a combination of these disadvantages which is a lot for a Combat I promotion to make up. Note also that Combat I is not given to naval, air, mounted, siege or archer units. In short, it ain’t all that great

AGG isn't all that great, which is why I rarely use it. In fact, it's best for early conquest and that's about it.
However if you're going to invoke the benefits of SPI, to be fair you should include all of CHA, namely +1 happiness thruout your empire. Actually it's effectively +2 since any player w/CHA is going to have monoliths/Stonehenge. That will be MORE of a overall bonus than No Anarchy could ever be. And if you plan ahead, you can have enough GP's available to start a Golden Age, and switch civics back and forth with ease.

[Blake]

Cha is quite likely the most powerful trait in the game.
Cha combined with spi, is more powerful than cha combined with agg.

If you want to compare agg and spi directly, that is okay, but that does not capture the synergies with cha.

I personally think that Cha/Agg is one of the best Agg combos, but Cha/Spi is better still. And there are many agg combos, which are not made stronger by substituting spi for agg. For example, agg/org is definitely better than spi/org.

[wodan11]

I usually have a military city and don't waste hammer building barracks in every city, so doing the switch-to-vasslage-and-theocracy trick is usually suboptimal for me. Rarely if I need to crank out troops in a hurry, sure, but I still don't have the barracks, so Vass/Theo help make up for the barracks, they don't supplement it.

Wodan

[Hauptman]

Well I had an emergency situation that required every city to bigin unit construction. without spiritual I wouldnt have bothered with a civic switch and wouldnt have gotten those 4 extra xp on each unit, giving me 1 less promotion.

its apples and oranges... spiritual vs agg, they both have uses, and 1 can be better than the other in different situations. its just this instance spiritual allowed an immediate switch when i needed it and agg wouldnt have given me blitz helo's wich really saved my bacon.


But to finish the ARR wich was sposed to be the orriginal topic...


I was 3 turns from finishing mobile artillery when ceasar declared war. So I seperated my arty from my infantry when I attacked Monty, and held my amphib force back until I could upgrade them. My plan was simple and foolproof. A perfect pincer attack that would take out all 3 civs. Nothing could go wrong. It was perfect.

My main land force attacked to the north Into Monty's lands, My amphib force headed south At Isabella, and a massive airlift would hold, then attack the romans in the center with the newest and best equipment. Then I saw it...

Air recon reported sightings of a massive roman buildup. All air units where scrambled and the assault began on his MAIN force. It was his main force, not his only. Small probing attacks came at the HRE and my few units easily dealt with them, but I had to keep that main force pinned by air while the buildup continued. In the north my main attack took Monty's first city rather easily and went for a second. The amphibs were enroute to Isabella's capital. As the buildup was underway I had sent a few units into roman lands hoping to use up some of those cannons with such lopsided odds in my favor. Things didnt happen that way. Each unit I sent wouldn't kill more than 2 units before its death. Pure unluck on my part. With his unit superiority this was not gonna win the war for me. So I held back after the loss of 4 units in this way. It wasnt long before my seaborne Invasion hit Izzy. Her capital fell and my forces moved inland. Monty's main force met mine in the field and was met with a resounding defeat. And the Center buildup continued. Once my center was strong enough to do some real damage to that stack, I ceased bombing it to let it move into the HRE, where I would have the time to beat it down as it inched into my territory.

However Ceasar had his own Ideas. By attacking Montezuma I had givin him another target not protected by culture. He Moved his forces north towards that. Of course I was able to move my own more rapidly (he had no rails) but I didnt see the danger. not yet.

Gotta get to work, more coming....

[Hauptman]

After my main forced captured a second Aztec city that freed it up to help meet the force rome was sending. I moved both my northern and center armies, well over half of my total military power, into the defense of the city ceaser was after. Now I should have left it with a token defense and held my forces in reserve. ArmeeGroupenNord was afterall, an offensivly promoted force. City attackers are not the best defenders. But I figured the power differential would lean in my favor. I bombed his stack and braced myself.

His turn came. This had to be the longest turn in the history of CIV. Each unit in that stack took its turn attacking one at a time. It was a rollercoaster of excitement. Win a few combats then loose a couple. Screeming at the computer for loosing a fight that it should have won then cheering as a single hurt machinegun kills 5+ cavalry! Then after that MG finally looses, Only to find the 26str artillery now get to defend at FULL strength! Imune to collateral damage! The rollercoaster begins all over again! After its all said and done. I have 3 units left alive In VERY poor condition but I held! I held that massive stack back for a single turn. Victory sweet victory.

Victory bittersweet victory. A look at his remaining units shows that I destroyed hardly half of it. Thats still a massive force and I'm left with maybe 6 fresh units in the area. The whole NTO is defended by 9 units (not counting allies). I could be in trouble here.

Meanwhile in the south Isabella is in real danger. I see no real military. 3 -4 rifles fer city and no cannon's or cavalry. Then I notice it's in the NTO. She sent her attack to help rome and left herself defensless. Well at least 1 end of this war is going well. Her cities quickly fall in the south and that leaves her with a single city in the north adjacent to Monty.

The airlift is ceasless. An average of 4 fresh units join the fight each and every turn. And among that is a good mix of tanks and blitz helo's. These units, on the attack can kill multiple units per turn, 4 for a lucky helo!

The second turn in the NTO, I send ALL available units in to defend the city once again airlifting new ones in to replace the old defenders. I know it cant hold, but I want to do as much damage as possible. Izzy's stack is also in range. there is just no way to hold it but I make him pay in blood for that city. Even if he can match my production unit for unit, they dont match in strength. If I can whiddle that force down, I will win this war.

Had Ceasar Immediatly moved in to the next city he could have taken it, then possibly a 3rd. but he didnt. he stopped to rest and refit. wich gave me the time to begin the counter attack. At first it was weak, 1 or 2 units doing there best. but it could only grow. Bombers and arty kept him on the heal defensive so I began whiddling it down as it sat in that city. Then computers finished. Now he's finished. Mechanized infantry begin pooring into the battle joining the aircraft and tanks. soon that city falls leaving the roman army a shattered shell of its former size.

Once my amphibs had cleared out izzy, they re-embarked at went to rome, also coastal. Rome was now loosing a war it could have won, had it not been for my shear productive ability, and technological advantage. The northern force headed west capturing Izzy's last city. The next turn all vassal agreement between them where cancelled, and in turn they all capitulated to me. Unfortunately, once someone looses all their cities, liberation is no longer an option ( a bug? or intentional?) so I had to keep spain under my own control.

During the war the makeup of the world had changed drastically. Louis signed an alliance with tokugawa, and the 2 canadian factions allied. Bringing both teams back into the game. And making my next step more difficult.

[Hauptman]

A look at the relations screen shows that mansa and Hateshepsut have a defensive pact, so an alliance there is just a matter of time. My troops are in the area, so i set them up. Amphib force in the south and I have mansa completely surrounded. He has infantry and fighters but I figure my jets should handle that easily enough. Just a few sent to the egyptian border with rome (and his new infantry units! because I gifted him all the required techs) should hold her back.

Turn 1. Amphibs take a city and he looses 1 to the north and 1 to the west. an eastern city has been prepped and will fall next turn. End turn. They sign an alliance and mansa's attack force (somehow hidden from my prewar recon) shows itself, but doesnt attack.

Turn 2. I destroy mansa's main force and just to see, I see if he will talk. he will. I speak with him, and he offers to capitulate.

2 turns is all it took to vassalize 2 more civs.

I liberate his 3 captured cities back and gift all my vassals all available techs (just to be a good sport) upto but not including the most recent discoveries.

I finish the tech for modern armor and upgrade them all. Head them back east and prepare to vassalize the canadians.

An american city culture flips to me, and I win a domination victory.

The year is 1834. ONLY 30 years after I won with Tokugawa, who began his wars at 25ad. Modern wars just happen so much faster especially considering the amount of time it takes to actually build up a great force. 10 turns to build a samurai compared to 2 turns for a mech infantry. Plus considering I made the land requirement with vassals required much less bother on my part for city maintanace and turn to turn tedium of setting build orders. This is gonna be the way I do it more often....

[dregor]

Canadians?

[Hauptman]

Originally posted by dregor
Canadians?

You know, those friendly people to the north? Thats what I called the americans germans and american indians... they loved me and they lived north of me. So they became canada.

Nothing derogitory of course, I save all that for VV.