Workers building roads

[guermantes]

Workers building roads can be an unpredictable bunch to say the least. It is nice to have them build a road to some place and go off fight a war instead of micromanaging them, but I find that they often waste turns and never build the road in question.

Consider this:

The two workers below have been given instructions to build a road across the plains/desert in order to shorten supply lines from Circei to Ravenna.



But at the beginning of the next turn we can see how they choose to carry out this task. They simply intend to walk along, perhaps fill in a few holes here and there, the already existing but longer road to Circei.



And when they get to their destination South-East of Circei they will wait for new orders. (forgot to make screenshot of this)

I find generally that having them build one tile at a time is the only way to prevent them from skipping work and taking existing but longer roads while doing nothing. But this defeats the whole purpose of the 'build road to' order which I presume is there to alleviate our micro-managing burdens.

Or am I missing something?

[savegame attached]

[wodan11]

I agree with this concern.

I would also add a concern that, when you select a go-to or build-to movement order, a route is highlighted. However, when the unit actually moves, it may well take a different route.

This is a big conceptual problem. The preview of an order MUST match the actual order. Otherwise, get rid of the preview. It's worse than having nothing.

Wodan

[Jaybe]

Workers build roads on the fastest route to the destination tile. If you didn't have that circuitous road already in place, they would have done as you desired.

Personally, I often have to make excessive use of SHIFT-commands to get them to do as I wish, or just build one tile at a time. I rarely make the error you did anymore.

[wodan11]

You're intimating this is guermantes fault, jaybe.

Personally, I feel the game could be improved in this area.

Wodan

[Nugog]

Originally posted by wodan11
Personally, I feel the game could be improved in this area.

Wodan

I agree - this is why I never use the automations - and roads I build one square at a time - to avoid just this.

[guermantes]

Originally posted by Jaybe
Workers build roads on the fastest route to the destination tile. If you didn't have that circuitous road already in place, they would have done as you desired.

Well, (besides what wodan mentions) that logic is erroneous in that the 'build road to' implies that the worker should improve non-roaded tiles. It does not make sense even in a computer game to assign someone to build a road only to have them walk to the destination along an existing road and then consider the work done just because that was the fastest way to get to the destination point.

We can't build a mine on top of a mine, so why does not the AI react when it 'builds' a road on top of a road?

I guess SHIFT-queing one tile at a time orders is a good workaround though...

[Quillan]

I think part of the problem is that Guer had a turn ending between giving the order and starting to execute it. In my experience, if the worker had movement points remaining when I gave the order, it would have stepped northwest and proceeded to start building the road. However, every time I try giving them a new order after they've run out of movement points it comes out wonky.

Like a couple of posters, I've found that sometimes I'll order them to build a road to something a distance away and they'll decide to go a different route than the preview, but I think the problem there is how the preview is calculated. I think the preview is based on the quickest route to move to the target square, while the final route is the route that will take the fewest turns to finish the road. Example: the road will not be a straight line in a cardinal direction. Moving NE will take them into a forest, while moving E will go into a plains square. A direct route going NE first will go through 4 squares of forest, while going E first will move through 3 forest and 1 plains square. When moving, the worker would arrive on the fourth turn regardless, but if building it would start the road in the plains on the turn it moves in, where moving into the forest requires waiting a turn, so the road will finish 1 turn faster by starting with the plains square.

[Kuciwalker]

Well, (besides what wodan mentions) that logic is erroneous in that the 'build road to' implies that the worker should improve non-roaded tiles. It does not make sense even in a computer game to assign someone to build a road only to have them walk to the destination along an existing road and then consider the work done just because that was the fastest way to get to the destination point.

It depends. Say I have 3 cities, A B C. A is connected to B by a road, C is completely disconnected. You ask a worker in C to build a road to A, or a worker in A to build a road to C. Should it build a second road between B and A? Extend this and the best compromise seems to be "build a new route only if the old route is slower than simply ignoring the roads altogether" which is what I think the command does.

[Supr49er]

Like almost everything else in life, if you want it done right, do it yourself !

[DirtyMartini]

Originally posted by wodan11
I agree with this concern.

This is a big conceptual problem. The preview of an order MUST match the actual order. Otherwise, get rid of the preview. It's worse than having nothing.

Wodan

Cant' believe I haven't seen this mentioned before wodan's post. While the road building is annoying, the movement preview thing is painful. It often switches from a safe path on preview to execute a path that puts units in harms way on actual execution. Ridiculous! I keep waiting for one of the patches to fix this. Surely everyone hates it.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by guermantes


Well, (besides what wodan mentions) that logic is erroneous in that the 'build road to' implies that the worker should improve non-roaded tiles. It does not make sense even in a computer game to assign someone to build a road only to have them walk to the destination along an existing road and then consider the work done just because that was the fastest way to get to the destination point.

We can't build a mine on top of a mine, so why does not the AI react when it 'builds' a road on top of a road?

I guess SHIFT-queing one tile at a time orders is a good workaround though...

The point of "route to" is to ensure there is a road to that tile. Not a particular road, but a road. It is making sure that tile is connected to the one you're on by road, thinking from the point of view of resource connecting. It is not considering travel time here at all (except in choosing which road tile to build if one needs to be built). It is working as intended.

Perhaps it should be intended differently Civ does not focus on roads as transportation for units so much, however. It primarily focuses on roads as connecting resources and trade routes. If you stick a worker in one city and tell him to route to another city, should he take the indirect path that is already 90% roaded and only needs one road to be built, or should he take the direct path that needs seven roads to be built? From the point of view of "fastest connection between cities", he should only build one tile, even if it is not the direct route...

I think you want to be able to draw on the map what the workers do. That's not how Civ works, for better or for worse ... that's more CTPish, really. I personally prefer the workers as independent units ...

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by DirtyMartini


Cant' believe I haven't seen this mentioned before wodan's post. While the road building is annoying, the movement preview thing is painful. It often switches from a safe path on preview to execute a path that puts units in harms way on actual execution. Ridiculous! I keep waiting for one of the patches to fix this. Surely everyone hates it.

This on the other hand I agree with 100% ...

[MinorAnnoyance]

The problem may be the the tile the workers were on and the tiles they were going to both already had roads. I think if you start or end on an empty tile it will ignore roads that go our of it's way.

[ColdPhoenix]

Originally posted by snoopy369
It is making sure that tile is connected to the one you're on by road, thinking from the point of view of resource connecting.

Got in before me on this one snoopy! It's for resource connecting and creating trade routes in the quickest time. Maybe they should add another automation button for shortest distance. Or, if the two tiles are already connected then the auto should road the shortest route.

[inca911]

Originally posted by ColdPhoenix
... if the two tiles are already connected then the auto should road the shortest route.

Definitely the way it should be addressed.