How Do You Guys Ever Win?

[logicman49]

I don't get it! I am relatively new at this and even though I've been there since Civ I, I've only played on easy mode. Since BTS and playing on Warlord, I send a stack of like 10 knights, 4 cats, 3 macemen and maybe an archer or 2 against a city that only has maybe 3 archers, 2 spearmen, a cat or 2 and I get clobbered everytime. I am well ahead in tech so I have time to rebuild and go in again with the same results. Then just like that they are up to me in tech and coming at me with the same. Only thing is I still have those big stacks and they hit me with 1/2 and destroy me. Next thing my nearest city goes down and before long I am overwhelmed. Then I find out they only have 4 cities. Where did all this come from?

[Indalecio]

Are softening up the city defenses first with catapults?

Do the catapults have Bombard(? The one that give additional collateral damage) upgrades?


Do you have barracks and stables for experience upgrades?

Do you stack your civics to give them experience upgrades?

[CrONoS]

Re: How Do You Guys Ever Win?

Originally posted by logicman49
I don't get it! I am relatively new at this and even though I've been there since Civ I, I've only played on easy mode. Since BTS and playing on Warlord, I send a stack of like 10 knights, 4 cats, 3 macemen and maybe an archer or 2 against a city that only has maybe 3 archers, 2 spearmen, a cat or 2 and I get clobbered everytime. I am well ahead in tech so I have time to rebuild and go in again with the same results. Then just like that they are up to me in tech and coming at me with the same. Only thing is I still have those big stacks and they hit me with 1/2 and destroy me. Next thing my nearest city goes down and before long I am overwhelmed. Then I find out they only have 4 cities. Where did all this come from?

It can happen if the city is on a hill, with a wall, and good city defense promotion on their units.

Otherwise you should win...

One thing could be to softened their defense with the catapult, and sacrifice them for making collateral damage.

[wodan11]

What Indalecio said, especially about the Bombard ability of catapults. Do that first. It will take a couple of turns and your other units will have to sit there doing nothing.

Another suggestion is to declare war, then let the AI attack you. Wipe out his "extra" units on your home turf first. Heal up, and THEN send your stack into his territory.

Wodan

[logicman49]

I guess I assumed some stuff.
<Yes

Do the catapults have Bombard(? The one that give additional collateral damage) upgrades?Yes


Do you have barracks and stables for experience upgrades?Yes

Do you stack your civics to give them experience upgrades?>> I don't get this question! What do you mean by civics?

Generally speaking I follow all these rules and still get killed. Actually, I was able to play out the games before BTS. Unless the AI is just stronger. There is no way I have 3 knights meet a cat and 1 spearman in the open field (I rome a few units around to keep the enemy from moving in reinforcements) and lose all 3 in 2 turns!

What am I not getting???

[Indalecio]

Originally posted by logicman49

Originally posted by IndalecioDo you stack your civics to give them experience upgrades?

I don't get this question! What do you mean by civics?

Feudalism(?) and Theocracy give additional experience right after unit creation.

Generally speaking I follow all these rules and still get killed. Actually, I was able to play out the games before BTS. Unless the AI is just stronger. There is no way I have 3 knights meet a cat and 1 spearman in the open field (I rome a few units around to keep the enemy from moving in reinforcements) and lose all 3 in 2 turns!

You just answered your own question. 3 Knights(Mounted Unit) against 1 Spearman(Strong against Mounted Units). Plus, its entirely possible that 1 Spearman had a bunch of unit upgrades.

[MattDoyle]

My experience has shown that it is better to upgrade catapults with city raider promotions rather than the collateral damage one.

Also, the civic is vassalage, i think it comes from the tech feudalism.

[BigWilly1974]

I always upgrade Cats with the increased bombard damage. City raider gets the defense bonus down a few turns quicker, but when I do attack with my units, I want the softest defenders possible after my cats attack the defending stack directly. I only use City Raider on non siege units.

[Shrapnel12]

Originally posted by logicman49

Generally speaking I follow all these rules and still get killed. Actually, I was able to play out the games before BTS. Unless the AI is just stronger. There is no way I have 3 knights meet a cat and 1 spearman in the open field (I rome a few units around to keep the enemy from moving in reinforcements) and lose all 3 in 2 turns!

What am I not getting???

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Spearmen have a 6 and +100% vs mounted units, which would give them a 12, more then enough to defeat your knights. Even if they only have +50% vs mounted troops, it's still a tough fight if they have an upgrade or are fortified.

[Solver]

Those are Pikemen. Spearmen are strength 4.

[One_more_turn]

Knights against Pikemen: mincemeat

Make sure they are Spearmen, not Pikemen.

[wodan11]

Logicman: one glaring omission in your statements... did you actually USE the bombard ability of your catapults? Not the collateral damage, the bombard.

Each city with culture or walls has a % defense which shows next to the city name. By using bombard before you attack, you can reduce this number down to 0%.

Unpromoted Knights vs Promoted & FortifiedSpearman (or Pikeman) is pretty bad odds for you.

The answer is that you should use your Maces. Your Maces (especially when promoted with City Raider) will do much better against that city than the knights will. In fact, you should have many more than 3 Maces.

Wodan

[Willem]

Originally posted by logicman49
Do the catapults have Bombard(? The one that give additional collateral damage) upgrades?Yes

No, Bombard is the upgrade that allows siege units to reduce the defences of a city before the actual attack. Collateral is something different. I'm guessing you aren't reducing the defences first, just sending in your Cats to cause damage. If so, that's a bad move. A city gets defence bonuses from Walls etc., and from it's culture. You have to reduce both, preferably to 0, before you make the final assault. Otherwise your units are going to be at a severe disadvantage.

[Willem]

Originally posted by wodan11
The answer is that you should use your Maces. Your Maces (especially when promoted with City Raider) will do much better against that city than the knights will.

That's a good point. Knights should be used primarily for counter-offensive and pillaging, especially if your opponent has Pikemen. Macemen are by far the best for actually taking cities.

[logicman49]

Thanks - I'll try out some stuff. Only thing left is do you attack with the group combined? When I do this it seems that the knights attack first and get wiped out and this leaves the maces and cats to defend. The AI seems to make quick work on their counterattack without knights around.