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Does anyone ever make Nuclear Power Plants?

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  • #46
    .

    The thing is, they did already eliminate micromanagement from the pollution equation, and civ 4 went backwards...

    Civ 3 was such a horrible game, that I won't even go into that here, but civ 2 was the original basis for much of what came later.
    It was much different and better than the first civ, and had a greater influence on civnet, alpha centauri and civ4 than civ I did imho.
    Civ 2 did had the 'whack a mole' pollution solving methed described above where workers spent time removing pollution.
    It was horrendous micro, and so was removed for alpha centauri.
    Alpha centauri had a global method of climate change from pollution which was far better, and removed the micro worker based pollution removal.
    Oceans would rise at certain levels of global warming in alpha centauri, rather than randomly turning squares to desert.

    Civ 4 changed the pollution to global warming dynamic which alpha centauri used into the unhealthy system.
    That's fine, I don't mind global warming being replaced by the unhealthy system.
    What does bother me is that they wanted to keep global warming in, and instead of pollution, tied it to nukes, which makes no sense.
    Why didn't they keep the alpha centauri non-micro solution?

    At the very least, they could have changed nuclear to provide unhealthy just like pollution.
    If nuclear plants provided 1 unhealthy than it would be a viable alternative to the coal plant.

    Coal - cheapest to build, earliest to tech, 2 unhealthy.
    Nuclear - more expensive to build, and later to tech too.

    Of course, hydo is the best solution with 0 unhealthy, but it comes so much later in the tech tree (depending on how early you got factories, it could be hundreds of years before you get plastics).
    I usually get factories before I even get scientific method or steel...
    I don't think it's good tactics to wait that long for hydro or 3gorges and losing the massive production boost you could be getting from the earlier coal or nuclear plants which is as much as the forge and factory combined.

    If nuclear gave 1 unhealthy, than it would compare with the coal and sometimes you'd build coal and sometimes nuclear, rather than always coal plants like the system encourages now.
    In cities without health concerns such as those on rivers without flood plains, you could build the cheaper, earlier, and unhealthier coal plants while on cities with health concerns such as flood plains, inland grasslands, etc. you could wait for the later and more expensive nuclear plants which could give 1 less unhealthy.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by AshenPlanet Alpha centauri had a global method of climate change from pollution which was far better, and removed the micro worker based pollution removal.
      Oceans would rise at certain levels of global warming in alpha centauri, rather than randomly turning squares to desert.
      .
      That's true, I remember AC. It's been so long ago now that I'd nearly forgotten. They did so many things right there.

      Originally posted by AshenPlanet If nuclear gave 1 unhealthy, than it would compare with the coal and sometimes you'd build coal and sometimes nuclear, rather than always coal plants like the system encourages now.
      In cities without health concerns such as those on rivers without flood plains, you could build the cheaper, earlier, and unhealthier coal plants while on cities with health concerns such as flood plains, inland grasslands, etc. you could wait for the later and more expensive nuclear plants which could give 1 less unhealthy.
      .
      That's a good idea to implement a one health penalty into the NPP, & just take out the meltdown risk. It should be a simple matter of changing the iHealth (change in healthiness in this city) value for the BUILDINGCLASS_NUCLEAR_PLANT in the CIV4BuildingInfos.xml, if I'm not mistaken. A potentially more interesting value to change, however, may be iAreaHealth (change in healthiness in all cities on this continent). That could provide some rudimentary accounting for widespread pollution on cities that share the same continent, though this would be best applied across the board to the worst polluting agents, not just NPP. Both of these & others can be found on the aforementioned page: CIV4BuildingInfos - Civ4Wiki & in the files I attached previously.

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      • #48
        I didn't mind civ2 system of polluted squares. Iirc, they still allowed you to work those squares, but only at 50% the original values. But at least the worker wasn't "kicked" off the square. So once you cleaned it up, you were back up to normal food/production/commerce levels.

        SMAC did have fungus which wasn't mentioned above. Fungus was annoying and had to be removed. Though once you get voice of planet, that is uneccessary. And you could get decent food/production/energy from the fungus.

        civ3 was worse since your workers couldn't work the squares at all and were kicked off and made into entertainers.

        I am happy pollution was removed and replaced by unhealthy faces. I'm perfectly okay with global warming being completely removed. This means the nuke effects on global warming should be removed. There is is already enough penalty for using nukes.

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        • #49
          So we all agree. I hope "someone" is checking fan forums from time to time.
          I'm not buying BtS until Firaxis impliments the "contiguous cultural border negates colony tax" concept.

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          • #50
            i bought beyond the sword!
            i want to reduce probability of nuclear plant meltdown!

            what can i do?

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            • #51
              Originally posted by sobrano
              i bought beyond the sword!
              i want to reduce probability of nuclear plant meltdown!

              what can i do?
              Don't build nuclear plants.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by wodan11
                Don't build nuclear plants.
                Cute! sobrano was driving at modifying selected files of course. But wodan11 is ever the practical soul.

                All the hassle makes the Nuclear fission branch kind of a no benefit path, except for the Spaceship. (At Fusion you do get a free Great Engineer if you are the first -- meh. If you need that GE, you are probably in the wrong branch to begin with. War is the answer if you fall behind in the Space race. [The Marvin Gaye song line "War is not the answer" plays through my head.])
                No matter where you go, there you are. - Buckaroo Banzai
                "I played it [Civilization] for three months and then realised I hadn't done any work. In the end, I had to delete all the saved files and smash the CD." Iain Banks, author

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                • #53
                  This was an interesting thread to read, though necromanced from the past. I won't interject my own blather, but while its open, I would like to ask:

                  if you build a coal power plant,
                  then build a hydro power plant,
                  then build a nuke plant...


                  do you get the negatives of all three, or does your city mothball the oldest method, making nukes the dominant tech?

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                  • #54
                    I will make them on occasion, but they are below Hydro Plants.
                    And indeed there will be time To wonder, "Do I dare?" and, "Do I dare?". t s eliot

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                    • #55
                      Well, here's another solution. Build all the nuclear plants you want, and then build the 3 Gorges. That's quite effective as well, at reducing the possibility of meltdown in all your cities.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by jnh140
                        This was an interesting thread to read, though necromanced from the past. I won't interject my own blather, but while its open, I would like to ask:

                        if you build a coal power plant,
                        then build a hydro power plant,
                        then build a nuke plant...


                        do you get the negatives of all three, or does your city mothball the oldest method, making nukes the dominant tech?
                        Neither. In each city, the latest built plant is the one that is in effect.

                        So, if you build coal then nuclear in city A, it's the nuclear plant that remains in effect.

                        Or, if you build nuclear then hydro, then it's the hydro plant.

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                        • #57
                          ok ty all i resolved!
                          i have understand alone!

                          now i have reduce probability of nuclear meltdown of a factor 10

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                          • #58
                            So, if you buils nuke, THEN coal, only the coal would count? This matters in late game conquering where the nuke is inherited on seizing the city and no water source for hydro. Obviously the Three Gorges applies on "my" continent, but there are seldom other civs on that plat of land.
                            No matter where you go, there you are. - Buckaroo Banzai
                            "I played it [Civilization] for three months and then realised I hadn't done any work. In the end, I had to delete all the saved files and smash the CD." Iain Banks, author

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Blaupanzer
                              So, if you buils nuke, THEN coal, only the coal would count?
                              That's my understanding, yes.

                              Should be easy enough to test.

                              Generally I don't bother, myself. I build few Nuke plants myself and the number taken by conquest is low enough that global warming isn't an issue.

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                              • #60
                                Is Ashenplanet a DL of yours, Blaupanzer?
                                I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                                I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

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