Tech trading is / is not a bore (delete as appropriate)

[rjmatsleepers]

In another thread,

Originally posted by VoiceOfUnreason
Sirian persuaded me that tech trading is a bore, but that doesn't mean that he would persuade you.

I usually make a bee line for alphabet and tech trade my way to the top of the score graph. Typically this allows me to pick up a lot of "off path" techs relatively cheaply. For the rest of the game, I'm happy to concentrate on the techs that are important to me and trade them for the best deal I can make.

How do other players feel?

RJM

[VoiceOfUnreason]

A comparison of two economies in Hatshepsut's Heiroglyphics.

For a more complete look, you can compare my report with Sulla's.

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by VoiceOfUnreason
A comparison of two economies in Hatshepsut's Heiroglyphics.

For a more complete look, you can compare my report with Sulla's.

This seems to describe a game in which there was a house rule against researching alphabet. I'm not sure how to interpret the analysis and results for a standard game.

RJM

[Geronimo]

Re: Tech trading is / is not a bore (delete as appropriate)

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
In another thread,



I usually make a bee line for alphabet and tech trade my way to the top of the score graph. Typically this allows me to pick up a lot of "off path" techs relatively cheaply. For the rest of the game, I'm happy to concentrate on the techs that are important to me and trade them for the best deal I can make.

How do other players feel?

RJM

I've been trying this but I've found the AI often has these neurotic refusals to trade techs even when they are supposably friendly, and even when they are demanding other techs from me which I kindly gave to them.

Is it possible to predict which techs the AI will refuse to trade in advance?

For instance I had noticed that practically everybody had calendar and casting So (even though it said won't trade for all of them) I assumed that they would soon change their minds and be willing to trade.

...no such luck! I finally had to break down and research both myself even though everybody had those techs and even though I had some even more valuable techs to offer in trade that nobody else had!

In my first game other civs had traded both casting and calendar to me so what was so special about those techs (apart from the fact that the first game was chieftain and the current second game is monarch) this time ?

[gdgrimm]

Re: Re: Tech trading is / is not a bore (delete as appropriate)

...no such luck! I finally had to break down and research both myself even though everybody had those techs and even though I had some even more valuable techs to offer in trade that nobody else had!

In my first game other civs had traded both casting and calendar to me so what was so special about those techs (apart from the fact that the first game was chieftain and the current second game is monarch) this time ?

I think the willingness of the AI civs to trade with the player goes down at higher levels.

Their willingness to trade a tech also depends on how many other civs they know have the tech (i.e. they are less likely to trade a tech that they think they have a monopoly on). This is why 1 on 1 games (or situations) usually mean you have to research everything yourself.

[Dis]

Tech trading is the only way to go. but I know I don't take full advantage of it.

Are there any special beelines or techs that I should make a point to get?

I usually go for drama and music. The ai seems willing to trade for them. And as noted above the ai loves going for metal casting and calender themselves. I usually can't trade drama for metal casting, but I can usually find something. Yeah I realize I'm getting the bad end of the deal in all my trades, but it's better than not trading at all (and having to research the tech yourself)

[Mr Justice]

for me their is a sweet spot,

usualy mid ages/industruial where i stop trading due to me not wanting to give the ais any help.

but up til then i try trade for as much as possible. in tougher games it means trading to keep up and picking the right techs so that AI will trade with me, and trying to be nice. if im doing well and churning out the techs then i'll trade techs to keep my reaserch rate at 100%. especially at this stage i usually decide to "sell" my tech to all and sundry and will take any gp available.

tough question for me is will i trade alpha at all. (well till a few have it)

[couerdelion]

Tech trading IS a bore.

But unfortunately it is a necessary part of a technically stronger game and since the AI will do this, you’ll lose out if you are not part of the trading game at almost every level.

As for whether or not you can trade, the first important thing to note here is that it is linked to a sound diplomatic. Get cast aside and you will be left out of the loop and miss out on a lots of freebies.

Generally it is also of greatest value in the earlier stages of the game. Trading techs seems to have less value later in the game and often usually will form part of a strategy to limit AI trades. This might be different at the higher levels where it could well be part of an on-going strategy

[Arrian]

Don't forget to ask for gifts from AIs that are friendly or pleased. They will give stuff to you. I often pick up smallish techs I don't want to waste turns researching that way (archery, sometimes HBR, drama... stuff like that).

-Arrian

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Arrian
Don't forget to ask for gifts from AIs that are friendly or pleased. They will give stuff to you. I often pick up smallish techs I don't want to waste turns researching that way (archery, sometimes HBR, drama... stuff like that).

-Arrian

will they ever take offense or is it always safe to ask?

[Common Sensei]

As long as the option is "Can you spare this for a good friend" as opposed to "We demand the following in tribute" there is no diplomatic penalty.

[Shr3dZ]

I always try selling off the same tech multiple times, its the only way to get ahead since 1:1 trades usually get you nowhere (unless its a resource).

Later in the game I tend to trade a lot less, if at all. Not b/c the same strategy as the early game wouldnt work, but b/c its like the tech tree gets a lot smaller, no chance to get multiple techs - - - tech whoring is fun anyways.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Common Sensei
As long as the option is "Can you spare this for a good friend" as opposed to "We demand the following in tribute" there is no diplomatic penalty.

Bingo, that's the key. If they give it to you, great. If not, no problem.

Whereas if you demand tribute it's -1 (or more?) no matter what.

Unlike the AI, I don't go asking for the newest, juiciest tech they have (well, occasionally I do just for a laugh, but they'll never give it up). By the time I ask an AI for HBR, it's probably time to build Knights. It's always stuff I've bypassed for one reason or another.

-Arrian

[DrSpike]

No tech trading is a bit silly, unless it is always war.

[Steve Clark]

Originally posted by DrSpike
No tech trading is a bit silly, unless it is always war.

After playing quite a few long games, I'm still not sure which way to go. I have played with it off and with it on and can come up with pros and cons of either way. As been said, you reach a point where tech trading hurts you more because of the unwillingness of the AI to trade key techs with you but they will easily trade among themselves. The key turning point, I have found, is right after Rifling. That's the point I lose my tech lead and can't catch up - the AI seems to be constantly 2-3 techs ahead of you while you are spending time to get to Steel.