Plans for new XP or Civ5?

[Targonis]

Ok, we know there will be a second expansion(thank you Solver). Now, a number of people seem to be drawing a blank on what could be added.

I for one would love to see things like plate tectonics, so that you could have continents that are right next to each other, with elements like earthquakes, Tsunamis, volcano eruptions, and other related natural disasters. There's an expansion possibility for those who think there isn't a lot that can be added.

Technology tree could be upgraded a LOT, with many tech advances being broken into multiple parts.

More civics choices.

Cultural choices(polygamy and other social engineering items, racial segregation(not to be confused with slavery), and other things that many consider barbaric).

Internal revolts(if a city or multiple cities get too unhappy, they can break away from your empire).


Many of these should be possible additions to the game, though plate tectonics would probably be the most difficult to add.

The question is when we will hear about an official announcement.

[DrSpike]

Well we don't want to reinvent the wheel - we've had both natural disasters and internal revolts, and they both have problems. For the former it turns out uncontrollable acts of god are frustrating and add nothing in a strategy game as they can't be built into plans, and for the latter the existing model of culture flipping is about as good as it is going to get I'd say. Not sure aside from a little nuancing what can be added without making it absurdly annoying like in Civ3, where if your luck was out no captured city for you.

The tech tree already has quite a nice balance - I'd have to be convinced of the case for just adding more for the sake of it. Civics I could live with a few more (1 or maybe 2 more per type) but easy to go overboard.

[Solver]

Tectonics were done in Alpha Centauri, at least to a degree. Not exactly like you describe, but it was somewhat similar.

As for internal revolts, would you really want them back with XP2? We've had those in previous civ games (and also CtP and SMAC), and they were cut from Civ4 exactly because they were seen as quite unfun.

[Harrier UK]

Originally posted by Targonis
I for one would love to see things like plate tectonics, so that you could have continents that are right next to each other, with elements like earthquakes, Tsunamis, volcano eruptions, and other related natural disasters.

The Civ series is about what happenned over the last 7000 years or so.

Not the last 7 0r 7000 million years or so. So tectonics is a complete no - no - no - etc. Get the drift.

[bjsiders]

Stuff I'd hate to see:

* Civ3-style corruption and waste
* "The mayor is in hiding!" God I hated that.
* Tons more units
* Tons more buildings
* Tons more techs

Stuff I'd like to see:

* More Civs
* More "attributes"
* Somewhat finer granularity of technology in the industrial and modern eras, so that units don't become obsolete so damn fast. Once you get to gunpowder, you can have marines before you have a musketman out the door.
* Cruise missiles that are basically "special attacks" that certain types of ships can launch from sea and hit inland targets.
* A better interface to the UN, and more options for what it can do
* Expanded/improved diplomacy options.
* REMOVE THE STUPID RED TEXT. It's the new "Mayor is in hiding" for me. I research a new tech and run off to see which AIs might trade, and nope, Isabella is holding Calendar TIGHT TO HER CHEST and it doesn't matter if I offer her every tech I have and 10,000 gold, SHE WILL NOT give it up just because she doesn't like me. She's Seinfeld trying to return the coat for spite. Not cool.
* The diplomacy is RIDICULOUSLY one-sided. The AI shows up and demands that you turn over brand new hard-earned techs. Why can't the player flag new techs as "red" and not even permit the AI to even TRY to ask for them or trade? Hate it, hate it, hate it.

[Targonis]

Originally posted by Harrier UK


The Civ series is about what happenned over the last 7000 years or so.

Not the last 7 0r 7000 million years or so. So tectonics is a complete no - no - no - etc. Get the drift.

Hmmmm, earthquakes and volcanic eruptions are far from being uncommon. I'm not talking about having continents moving or anything like that, but more from the perspective of where these types of events might hit.

On the topic of not wanting random events because they get in the way of Civ being more about being a pure strategy game, I suspect there would be a good number of people who would enjoy seeing disasters come into play. There ARE downsides to having your entire civilization set up right on the coast if a Tsunami hits. It might suck, but then again, starting in an arctic region on the map also sucks. It would also affect others in many situations, not just players.

If things are optional, then people like having the choice.

As for "internal revolts", I figure that the revolts should only happen if you really screw up or don't do anything to deal with problems. For example, if you end up with more unhappy people in a city than happy people, and you don't have enough military in the city, why wouldn't it try to break away if you don't do anything to try to help with the problem(s). But as long as you have SOME building being worked on(a temple for example), it will keep the city from trying to break away. Mis-management of your civ could do it.

I agree with the "red" items in diplomacy being a real pain, and I really hate how an AI civ can run to you to trade the moment you develop it, yet you can't do the same? It doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Alexander I]

Well, it would make sense to have disasters. Look at the Minoan ("Atlantis") civilization. A volcanic eruption on the island of Thera caused a massive backlash that destroyed their whole civilization.

[jcohan]

Originally posted by Jaybe
Well, come ON you two, is the glass half-empty or half-full!

Neither; it's simply not the optimal glass for the situation.

[bjsiders]

Originally posted by Alexander01
Well, it would make sense to have disasters. Look at the Minoan ("Atlantis") civilization. A volcanic eruption on the island of Thera caused a massive backlash that destroyed their whole civilization.

But is that FUN?

[Targonis]

Originally posted by bjsiders


But is that FUN?

It could be fun trying to re-build, or to survive after a major disaster. In the same way that I don't enjoy many things that others find fun, I find some things fun that others don't.

So, just because YOU might not want something doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. As long as it isn't the only feature of an expansion means that it would probably be a good addition to the game.

For that matter, some people hate having barbarians in the game, others love having them out there. As long as there would be the option to use or not use one of the new features, it would probably be welcomed.

[Thedrin]

It could be fun trying to re-build, or to survive after a major disaster. In the same way that I don't enjoy many things that others find fun, I find some things fun that others don't.

So, just because YOU might not want something doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. As long as it isn't the only feature of an expansion means that it would probably be a good addition to the game.

For that matter, some people hate having barbarians in the game, others love having them out there. As long as there would be the option to use or not use one of the new features, it would probably be welcomed.

What you have is a possible scenario for the next expansion. Playing a game on a newly generated map in which bad things happen frequently; earthquakes, epidemics, volcanos, and tsunamis.

It could be fun trying to re-build

People want to build up an empire. Having that empire - or an important part of it - annihilated by a random action beyond the scope of actions commited by opponents (something beyond the player's ability to counter) will take away a lot of the fun for people.

Volcanos might work (as a custom map option, off by default) because affects can be limited to a small, clearly visible region and the player will know they're settling a city that is at risk. Earthquakes and tsunamis won't since they can affect the entire map and most coasts respectively.

[Adagio]

As long as it's optional, then I don't mind if they add random events... but sure, I'd prefer them to spend more time on other features instead

[jbp26]

Originally posted by Targonis
So, just because YOU might not want something doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. As long as it isn't the only feature of an expansion means that it would probably be a good addition to the game.

well.. no. it would probably be a good addition to the game if most people found it fun- otherwise its a waste of time and resources to create, that could be spent on something more enjoyable.

[bjsiders]

Originally posted by Targonis


It could be fun trying to re-build, or to survive after a major disaster. In the same way that I don't enjoy many things that others find fun, I find some things fun that others don't.

So, just because YOU might not want something doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. As long as it isn't the only feature of an expansion means that it would probably be a good addition to the game.

For that matter, some people hate having barbarians in the game, others love having them out there. As long as there would be the option to use or not use one of the new features, it would probably be welcomed.

Chalk me up in the "hate barbarians" category. However, it's only because if not for barbarians I could blissfully breeze through the first 4,000 years of Civ IV without building a single military unit. The solution is adding features like the Great Wall of China and leaving Barbarians in. If you hate them THAT much, there's an answer for you.

Not sure what wonder you could build to have earthquakes not annihilate your civilization...

[DrSpike]

A random chance of a major disaster affecting your civ is simply a lame idea for any strategy game. A scenario, maybe, but not in the core game. If they ever even think of going in that direction they shall have to contend with my wrath.