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  • #16
    Well your comments were well thought-out. Although I didn't understand your first point. How does being spiritual help get temples earlier?

    Your second point was what I was attempting to address in terms of the early game being the most important.. so even though they obsolete quickly, the benefits are rather large.

    As usual, Vel did a much better job of explaining exactly why those early GPP are so important than I did.

    And your final point wasn't directed towards Ramses, so it doesn't apply to this particular discussion.

    Ramses is really all about the early game and speed and building up a lead that is insurmountable.

    I found it interesting that Vel was able to adapt older strategies for use with particular leaders for increased effectiveness.

    While I think Warlords is far more balanced than Civ IV is on its own, I do think it says something about the game when CS Slingshots are still incredibly attractive.

    (IE: CS is too powerful and there's a problem with the tech path that allows humans to take particular courses of action in order to take significant shortcuts)

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Arrian
      As for a list of the lightbulb preferences... I'd check CivFanatics if I were you. Somebody has probably done a chart.
      Great Prophet

      Meditation
      Polytheism
      Priesthood
      Monotheism
      Theology
      Divine Right
      Mysticism
      Code of Laws
      Civil Service
      Monarchy
      Literature
      Music
      Writing
      Philosophy
      Printing Press
      Drama
      Alphabet
      Paper
      Education
      Liberalism
      Calendar
      Masonry
      Animal Husbandry
      Construction
      Future Tech


      Great Scientist

      Writing
      Mathematics
      Scientific Method
      Physics
      Education
      Printing Press
      Fiber Optics
      Computers
      The Wheel
      Philosophy
      Chemistry
      Fission
      Fusion
      Optics
      Paper
      Astronomy
      Biology
      Electricity
      Flight
      Genetics
      Compass
      Satellites
      Sailing
      Alphabet
      Calendar
      Medicine
      Ecology
      Iron Working
      Metal Casting
      Engineering
      Steam Power
      Liberalism
      Agriculture
      Masonry
      Bronze Working
      Machinery
      Gunpowder
      Refrigeration
      Rocketry
      Fishing
      Combustion
      Plastics
      Composites
      Mining
      Radio
      Meditation
      Drama
      Theology
      Music
      Civil Service
      Democracy
      Corporation
      Communism
      Economics
      Hunting
      Archery
      Animal Husbandry
      Construction
      Robotics
      Monotheism
      Mass Media
      Horseback Riding
      Replaceable Parts
      Rifling
      Artillery
      Future Tech


      Great Artist

      Literature
      Drama
      Music
      Polytheism
      Monarchy
      Mass Media
      Radio
      Mysticism
      Monotheism
      Divine Right
      Alphabet
      Meditation
      Priesthood
      Theology
      Nationalism
      Writing
      Philosophy
      Printing Press
      Liberalism
      Pottery
      Horseback Riding
      Democracy
      Education
      Military Tradition
      Communism
      Astronomy
      Computers
      Feudalism
      Constitution
      Fishing
      Sailing
      Paper
      Biology
      Archery
      Masonry
      Metal Casting
      Civil Service
      Guilds
      Fascism
      Hunting
      Animal Husbandry
      Bronze Working
      Construction
      Railroad
      Robotics
      Future Tech


      Great Merchant

      Currency
      Banking
      Economics
      Corporation
      Metal Casting
      Code of Laws
      Mining
      Constitution
      Wheel
      Pottery
      Sailing
      Paper
      Railroad
      Industrialism
      Monarchy
      Civil Service
      Guilds
      Fascism
      Mass Media
      Agriculture
      Writing
      Mathematics
      Printing Press
      Flight
      Machinery
      Replaceable Parts
      Satellites
      Mysticism
      Priesthood
      Divine Right
      Nationalism
      Calendar
      Scientific Method
      Medicine
      Horseback Riding
      Compass
      Steam Power
      Future Tech


      Great Engineer

      Machinery
      Assembly Line
      Industrialism
      Combustion
      Metal Casting
      Mining
      Iron Working
      Engineering
      Replaceable Parts
      Steam Power
      Steel
      Robotics
      Railroad
      Feudalism
      Fascism
      The Wheel
      Plastics
      Masonry
      Construction
      Guilds
      Bronze Working
      Corporation
      Electricity
      Animal Husbandry
      Gunpowder
      Priesthood
      Monarchy
      Code of Laws
      Constitution
      Agriculture
      Economics
      Chemistry
      Fission
      Genetics
      Fusion
      Optics
      Civil Service
      Nationalism
      Communism
      Ecology
      Pottery
      Calendar
      Currency
      Banking
      Scientific Method
      Physics
      Medicine
      Refrigeration
      Computers
      Divine Right
      Fishing
      Mathematics
      Flight
      Fiber Optics
      Hunting
      Horseback Riding
      Rifling
      Future Tech

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Rancidlunchmeat
        Well your comments were well thought-out. Although I didn't understand your first point. How does being spiritual help get temples earlier?
        Spiritual = 2x temple construction speed. Concentrate

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Welshie


          Spiritual = 2x temple construction speed. Concentrate
          Ummm... Ok.

          I'm concentrating right up to the point where I don't start with mysticism, so I still have to BEGIN to research the religious path to get all the way to Priesthood to begin to build the temple.

          I'm pretty sure it was stated that I'd still get the temple really early because I was spiritual.

          The fact that other leaders start with mysticism already givens them a huge turn lead (especially early in the game) to get to Priesthood and start building temples.

          Or are you saying that turn differential between having to research mysticism OFF THE BAT in order to 'catch up' is still less than the 50% production bonus?

          Comment


          • #20
            So is there any situation where you would build both Stonehenge and a obelisk?

            Comment


            • #21
              Where do the lists of techs for greay people come from?

              Just a quick glance let me notice that they can't be correct. Mysticism is quite far down the list but I don't think you can even get a great prophet before you've recsearched this (I could be wrong on that). Also, it's a prerequisite for all the techs about it in the list and so should come first if anything.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Chopper
                So is there any situation where you would build both Stonehenge and a obelisk?
                Not really. Unless you were sure you weren't going to complete Stonehenge and just wanted the cash in return for hammers.

                Or if you wanted the obelisk up more quickly than you could build stonehenge. I'm not sure what happens if you build an obelisk in one city and then stonehenge in another and the stonehenge city gets captured. You should keep the obelisk but I wouldn't be surprised if it disappeared.

                Once you've built Stonehenge you can't build an obelisk in any of your cities (as they already have one).

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by ColdPhoenix
                  Where do the lists of techs for greay people come from?

                  Just a quick glance let me notice that they can't be correct. Mysticism is quite far down the list but I don't think you can even get a great prophet before you've recsearched this (I could be wrong on that). Also, it's a prerequisite for all the techs about it in the list and so should come first if anything.
                  Uhh you just don't undestand it properly.

                  The GP always lightbulbs the *highest available* tech on the list. So if you don't have mysticism, mysticism will be the highest available...

                  As it happens I believe that all those techs
                  Meditation, Polytheism, Priesthood, Monotheism, Theology, Divine Right and Mysticism, score a perfect 10 on the prophet score - the maximum. I believe tiebreaker goes to the cheapest, so if you have Myst and meditation, the lightbulb will choose Priesthood over Polytheism.

                  It's also entirely possible, if a little contrived, to get a GP before Mysticism. You could capture Stonehenge. You could use the Arab UB. You can go to Code of Laws via Currency and build whatever that GP wonder is. I'd be surprised if there isn't at least one other GP wonder which doesn't need mysticism.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    And to a tech be available you must know its requisite tech/s.

                    Best regards,

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      [edit]
                      nevermind
                      Last edited by Diadem; October 19, 2006, 10:40.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Here's an XLS with the actual numbers for GP tech-bulbing.
                        Attached Files

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Blake

                          I'd be surprised if there isn't at least one other GP wonder which doesn't need mysticism.
                          There isn't.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Post deleted.
                            LandMasses Version 3 Now Available since 18/05/2008.

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                            • #29
                              Relating to my earlier point of using UBs actively: among those that have to be used actively to have any effect are the Sacrificial Altar, Obelisk and Madrassa. But if you're using any of those, you're playing as Montezuma, Rameses, Hatshepsut or Saladin, and you should be micromanaging like hell anyway - SPI is all about that.
                              Participating in my threads is mandatory. Those who do not do so will be forced, in their next game, to play a power directly between Catherine and Montezuma.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Playing as Ramses II now. Monarch difficulty (with enhanced AI), standard continents map. On the continent with me where Gandhi, Tokugawa and everybody's favorite ... Montezuma!

                                Those war chariots are real killers. I completely obliterated gandhi with them, and I'm currently crushing Monty.

                                And I've never wrecked my economy so badly. At one point I was loosing money even with 0% science. Very bad. I survived only because I had already gotten alphabet and this allowed me to build science in all my cities - until I finally got currency.

                                I now have courthouses in all but one city, and I'm close to civil engineering. I hope that will fix things. After that hopefully I can still snatch philosophy before the guys on the other continent do. All religions so far were founded on my continent, so I'm hoping to deny the other continent all religions - until I meet them and can give them my own religion

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