Pacifism/Philosopical Questions

[Arrian]

Yes, I've come to accept my love of that trait (just like my love of Religious in CivIII). I just hate anarchy soooo much.

-Arrian

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
This can be incredibly time consuming in a dedicated Specialist Economy, especially late on, where every few turns each city switches between research and production - with perhaps 10+ Specialists being set or unset.

I was referring to the first few GPs. The best way to learn about any game mechanic is to micromanage it as early as it becomes an option. That way there's less work to do and the results are more readily measured.

I doubt micromanaging a specialist economy in the late-game is worth the effort: at that point tile yield is very high due to all the various tech and Civic bonuses, and the GPs themselves are comparatively less powerful because you presumably spawned a bunch already and trigged a couple of GAs.

[zeace]

I've found that when I run a specialist economy, Golden Ages are a waste of the GPs since the GA really only helps workers on tiles, and not the specialists.

When I'm running cottages, though, especially with Universal Suffrage, the GA is extremely valuable since all those towns get +1C +1H.

Oh the irony that when you could use it the most, it's the farthest from reach...

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by zeace
I've found that when I run a specialist economy, Golden Ages are a waste of the GPs since the GA really only helps workers on tiles, and not the specialists.

Agreed. Specialist Economy and Golden Age do not mix.

[CarnalCanaan]

Originally posted by Blake
On the topic of Pacifism it's one of the most useful religious civics which doesn't require the state religion to be spread around - you only need the religion in the 2-3 cities generating your GPP. This can work great if you also benefit from the no upkeep (due to a very small military) and don't need the state religion happiness. It can be good for spiritual if you religion-flip for diplomacy purposes - just have all the religions in your 2-3 gpp cities and other cities can have whatever religion spreads naturally.
In comparison, org.rel and theology basically need to be spread everywhere if you're going to reap the full benefits.

Not wholly true, IMO. Theocracy only needs the religion in your unit-producing cities. If it's producing gold, culture or research to further the war effort, then religion under Theocracy provides no advantage.

Although Organized Religion is a must for Wonder building, it does offer a big boost to upstart cities.

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by zeace
I've found that when I run a specialist economy, Golden Ages are a waste of the GPs since the GA really only helps workers on tiles, and not the specialists.

When I'm running cottages, though, especially with Universal Suffrage, the GA is extremely valuable since all those towns get +1C +1H.

Oh the irony that when you could use it the most, it's the farthest from reach...

I think an economy that is dominated by specialists is likely to be early-mid game when you have Pyramids (Representation) and other specialist modifies (PHI/Pacifism/Sistine/Parthenon/Forum)

Once you get into the later game, the GPP are going to be less valuable and there would often be better tiles to work. Windmills and watermills will also give the +1 h/+1 c from a Golden Age too.

By the time you are running State Property and/or have electricity, I think Usuff and a 2/2/3 windmill, 3/2/3 watermill or 2/1/7 town tile may look a little more attractive that a Rep +6 beaker scientist of similar.

[Cort Haus]

If not under the player's control, the UN can break the late-game Specialist Economy with its forced civics.

It's funny to see AI's running an irrigation-heavy SE all vote for Uni Suff, Free Speech etc, but ultimately bad for the game. Even the ones who have Representation as the 'fave' civic vote themselves out of business. :doh:

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by couerdelion
By the time you are running State Property and/or have electricity, I think Usuff and a 2/2/3 windmill, 3/2/3 watermill or 2/1/7 town tile may look a little more attractive that a Rep +6 beaker scientist of similar.

Doubtless true for large empires, but for smaller outfits, State Property is less of an automatic choice unless there are rivers everywhere for the watermills. Under such circumstances, a conversion to a town-economy under Emancipation would probably be optimal.

[johnmcd]

I reckon it depends on how many cities you have, I like to get commerce and production cities down first, then Great Person, but after that I'll want another three or four commerce and production towns before I'll make another GP city.

I do believe it's worth having a couple of cities though.

[khumak]

I think another thing worth mentioning if you're planning on going for a GP focus is that you're much better off with a small group of very large cities than you are with a large group of small cities. I tend to try to expand out to 6 cities in semi ideal locations ASAP and then build up. Ideally you want as many religions as possible in each of those cities regardless whether you're the one who founded it because that allows you to build a temple for each religion which bumps up your max city size.

Your ideal GPP pump is going to be a city that you can initially focus on production with to crank out some early to mid game wonders and later switch to primarily food. Those GP points from those early wonders really add up. The late game wonders you can build elsewhere after you've switched to a food focus.

Best location I've found for this is lots of flood plains with a few hills to mine. Most of the time you're not going to be able to build all of your wonders in your GPP city though. I don't actually like to do a pure food focus for my GPP, I tend to prefer cottages with enough farms or food specials to keep it growing fairly rapidly. That's why flood plains are ideal because even cottaged flood plains produce 3 food each. All of those specialists + cottages in a city with all of the research and economy buildings + an academy= MASSIVE research + money generation... Once the cottages become towns you can even get decent production out of them if you switch to the right civic.