America?

[DirtyMartini]

Originally posted by Will9


You want more, okay. Not encourging more non-fossil fuels energy sources (which causes part of our bad foreign policy). Tax cutes that only benifet the rich. As a Christian here's another, not banning gay marriage.

I figured it out -- Will9 is Dick Cheney.

[DrSpike]

There's a history forum now - I suggest this thread be moved there.

[Blaupanzer]

Originally posted by Will9

You want more, okay. Not encourging more non-fossil fuels energy sources (which causes part of our bad foreign policy). Tax cutes that only benefit the rich. As a Christian here's another, not banning gay marriage.

Will9, I know you've been harrassed on this quote before. However, on the last part, how can you tell what the policies are for your little citizens in Civ IV relating to sexuality, etc. The way they propagate when well fed seems to indicate they are a bunch of hedonists. The materialist resources that make them happy are added directly to the religious resources, even though the religions often denounce materialism. Seems to me they could be a veritable cesspool of twisted perverts. Who gets to marry whom is probably not the top thing on their minds as the armies march over them, pillaging and inevitably destroying religious buildings, and as they are sacrificed for slavery.

The US has been, up to the current administration, one of the few nations where the government need not fear its own citizens and vice versa. Gay marraige is just one more place the US and state Governments need to stay away from. Who marries whom should be no concern of yours unless you are one of the partners.

[MasterDave]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer


The US has been, up to the current administration, one of the few nations where the government need not fear its own citizens and vice versa. Gay marraige is just one more place the US and state Governments need to stay away from. Who marries whom should be no concern of yours unless you are one of the partners.

I dont think the U.S. government has much to fear from the citizens, short of us voting them out of office, however, the citizens have a tremendous amount to fear from the government. The IRS is one of many agencies that has the right, the power, and the will to seize your assets, imprison you, and garnish your wages at a whim. They can do all of these things and the burden of proof that they are wrong securely lies with the taxpayer (who also always gets stuck with the legal bills, win or lose).

Then there is the question of Eminent Domain. Several recent court decisions have supported the government's right to seize private propoerty from a citizen NOT for the purpose of the public good (highway, hospital, etc), but to give to another private company because the second party will generate more revenues for the state! This is very upsetting to me, the original intent in the formation of the USA was that the government was formed to protect the individual's rights and propoerty. Now far too many people (both in and out of the government) seem to think that the rights and the property of the individual are bestowed upon us by our governemnt.

[Prussia]

Did you know that Al Capone was arrested, convicted, and sent to Alcatraz for Tax Evasion?

He was abnormal, however, since the FBI AND the IRS were tracking him down instead of just the latter.

And, as always, there are always stories of prisoners who were kidnapped from their homes by the government, imprisoned unjustly and innocently, and then not receiving any reimbursement whatsoever from the government that mistreated them.

At least it's better than Secret Police abducting and beating you for speaking your mind, and against the government.

[MasterDave]

Originally posted by padillah


No, politics doesn't trump math - reality trumps math.

The reality that expenses don't go up the more you make so why should taxes go down? A tax rate of 15% when you make $30,000 a year is different than when you make 300,000 per year.

Rich people think of how much is taken away ($45,000/yr. leaving $255,000/yr), while poor people think of how much they have left ($25,500). Yeah, it's not hard for most people to be noble when they still have $255,000 left to spend. It's a bit more difficult to be noble when you drop below poverty level after taxes.

Yet, if you go to the store your food and gas and movies and everything still costs just as much, despite the fact that the poor have nothing left to spend.

Believe me, if you have enough money to complain about taxing the rich, you're rich.

Tom P.

Ahh, the sweet refrain of class warfare. "My view is reality, and if you don't agree you must be one of those eeeeeeeevil rich people!!"

As a libertarian, I do not think that the governement's role is to spread misery to more successful individuals through forced redistribution of wealth (which in practice is a means of transfering more wealth from the citizenry to the government, which both sides of the aisle use to buy votes). However, decades of class warfare and demagougery from our so-called leaders has resulted in the idea that it is perfectly ok for the Government to steal 40,50,65% or whatever amount from people as long as it is happening to somebody else. Especially if that someone is an evil, nondeserving, greedy rich person.

And what is the result all of this so-called redistribution? We are constantly told that poverty levels and homelessness are higher than ever despite forty plus years of the U.S. Government's "War on Poverty". Despite the total lack of results, far too many people keep buying into the redistribution idea, with the hope of "sticking it" to those more fortunate.

I am certainly NOT rich and I do not even get anywhere close to the top brackets each year. However, just because I do not personally catch the worst of these confiscatory policies does not make them acceptable to me.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by MasterDave

As a libertarian, I do not think that the governement's role is to spread misery to more successful individuals through forced redistribution of wealth

History has shown us that if the government doesn't do it, the people will.

And the rich don't come out too well in that scenario.

[Fresno]

Hi all. I still think ´America is too young to be in Civ´

[Xorbon]

Originally posted by MasterDave
... The IRS is one of many agencies that has the right, the power, and the will to seize your assets, imprison you, and garnish your wages at a whim. They can do all of these things and the burden of proof that they are wrong securely lies with the taxpayer (who also always gets stuck with the legal bills, win or lose).

Originally posted by Prussia
And, as always, there are always stories of prisoners who were kidnapped from their homes by the government, imprisoned unjustly and innocently, and then not receiving any reimbursement whatsoever from the government that mistreated them.

Hey! I thought the U.S. was the world leader in lawyers and suing!

I would think if somebody could successfully sue McDonald's for making their coffee too hot, you should be able to sue government agencies for compensation when they do you wrong!

[Prussia]

Wrong? What did goverment agencies do wrong? They're perfect!

And what compensation? Why should the government pay anyone compensation?

()

If there are no witnesses or proof, there is no lawfirm.

[MasterDave]

Originally posted by Xorbon



Hey! I thought the U.S. was the world leader in lawyers and suing!

I would think if somebody could successfully sue McDonald's for making their coffee too hot, you should be able to sue government agencies for compensation when they do you wrong!

What you are forgetting here is that the majority of top elected officials (Congressmen, Senators, Supreme Court, Cabinet members, etc) in the United States are Lawyers. They take care of their own.

This is one of the reasons that we will never get any serious tort reform, despite a huge majority of us common folk believing that the lawyers and all the ridiculous lawsuits have gone off the deep end. Besides, when the IRS comes after you, they are not liable to countersuits, AFAIK. Otherwise, they would be getting sued by hundreds of people on a daily basis.

[MasterDave]

Originally posted by Fresno
Hi all. I still think ´America is too young to be in Civ´

American culture goes back to the first colonies in the early 1500's. Thats almost 500 years, not so bad in comparison with most of the other Civ's in the game.

Sorry for being on-topic.

[LordShiva]

Is Solver on vacation?

[Nugog]

Originally posted by LordShiva
Is Solver on vacation?

Here we go................

[Will9]

Originally posted by LordShiva
Is Solver on vacation?

He hasn't posted since the 20th, before this forum went OT.