[q=Prussia]it all depends on your definition of "sacking," and "destroying."[/q]
Or does it depend on your defintion of 'is'
.
[q=Prussia]Generaldoktor only proved my fact of "almost sacking Constantinople," but I don't know what he did to support YOUR argument.[/q]
Read on my padawan:
[q=Prussia]Come on, those barbarians wanted the entire world to go up in flames. They were trying to destroy EVERYTHING.[/q]
In response to:
[q=Yosho]
No one was really trying to destroy Rome, though. They just wanted to grab all the loot they could and then leave.[/q]
I think Generaldoktor's post seems to support Yosho's point, but then again:
[q=Prussia]I don't even know if they destroyed Rome or not. I will admit that when I said "they wanted the whole world to go up in flames," it was an extreme exageration.[/q]
Quite a quaint way of saying you were wrong.
I'm just trying to hold up historical accuracy in the face of "extreme exag[g]eration"
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[q=Yosho]Well, that depends how you define "cities" and "empires".[/q]
Granted, but if the Celts were an empire with cities, enough so to be included in CivIV, then so were the Ostrogoths and Visigoths.
For example, the Visigothic Empire under Alaric II around 500 AD:
![](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c9/Visigoth_Kingdom.jpg/588px-Visigoth_Kingdom.jpg)
And the Ostrogothic Kingdom after Theodoric the Great (hired by the Eastern Roman Empire) killed Odacer in Ravenna (which became the capital of the Ostrogothic Kingdom) and took over his Kingdom:
![](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f9/Ostrogothic_Kingdom.png)
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[q=Generaldoktor]Yeah, I did some more reading in the afternoon (in the States.) There were several barbarian "kings" of Rome, including guys like Odacer, Ricimer and Guildobard, prior to Belisarius taking it back. After the era of Justinian, Italy was lost forever to the Romans.[/q]
Indeed. There is some very interesting history in the final years of Rome, especially how some of the so-called "barbarians" were actually empire builders. Odoacer, for one, took over all of Roman traditions as an Emperor. He was named Patrician by Emperor Zeno of the Eastern Roman Emperor (who was given the regalia of the Western Empire, last held by Romulus Augustus before Odoacer took over). This lasted until Zeno decided he had enough and sent Theodoric the Great, another "barbarian", to take care of the issue... which began the Ostrogotic Empire.
The Lombard history of Italy is very interesting as well, especially how it ended (with the Pope calling Pippen, son of Charlemagne to take the crown from the Lombards).
Or does it depend on your defintion of 'is'
![Cute....](https://apolyton.net/core/images/smilies/cute.gif)
[q=Prussia]Generaldoktor only proved my fact of "almost sacking Constantinople," but I don't know what he did to support YOUR argument.[/q]
Read on my padawan:
[q=Prussia]Come on, those barbarians wanted the entire world to go up in flames. They were trying to destroy EVERYTHING.[/q]
In response to:
[q=Yosho]
No one was really trying to destroy Rome, though. They just wanted to grab all the loot they could and then leave.[/q]
I think Generaldoktor's post seems to support Yosho's point, but then again:
[q=Prussia]I don't even know if they destroyed Rome or not. I will admit that when I said "they wanted the whole world to go up in flames," it was an extreme exageration.[/q]
Quite a quaint way of saying you were wrong.
![Cute....](https://apolyton.net/core/images/smilies/cute.gif)
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[q=Yosho]Well, that depends how you define "cities" and "empires".[/q]
Granted, but if the Celts were an empire with cities, enough so to be included in CivIV, then so were the Ostrogoths and Visigoths.
For example, the Visigothic Empire under Alaric II around 500 AD:
![](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c9/Visigoth_Kingdom.jpg/588px-Visigoth_Kingdom.jpg)
And the Ostrogothic Kingdom after Theodoric the Great (hired by the Eastern Roman Empire) killed Odacer in Ravenna (which became the capital of the Ostrogothic Kingdom) and took over his Kingdom:
![](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f9/Ostrogothic_Kingdom.png)
--
[q=Generaldoktor]Yeah, I did some more reading in the afternoon (in the States.) There were several barbarian "kings" of Rome, including guys like Odacer, Ricimer and Guildobard, prior to Belisarius taking it back. After the era of Justinian, Italy was lost forever to the Romans.[/q]
Indeed. There is some very interesting history in the final years of Rome, especially how some of the so-called "barbarians" were actually empire builders. Odoacer, for one, took over all of Roman traditions as an Emperor. He was named Patrician by Emperor Zeno of the Eastern Roman Emperor (who was given the regalia of the Western Empire, last held by Romulus Augustus before Odoacer took over). This lasted until Zeno decided he had enough and sent Theodoric the Great, another "barbarian", to take care of the issue... which began the Ostrogotic Empire.
The Lombard history of Italy is very interesting as well, especially how it ended (with the Pope calling Pippen, son of Charlemagne to take the crown from the Lombards).
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