Second Leaders? The Final Solution

[johnmcd]

Originally posted by Alexander01 So would you rather see a Scottish leader as the second choice for the Celts (eg. Robert the Bruce)?

I'd like to see England given English leaders and an English unique unit rather than conflating England and Britain.

I don't know if you can classify Robert the Bruce as a Celt given his Norman ancestry. Alexander or somone maybe...

The problem for me isn't really the absence of a Scottish leader so much as the confusion of England and Britain - especially when the Scots contributed so much to Britain's success.

[padillah]

Originally posted by Alexander01


So would you rather see a Scottish leader as the second choice for the Celts (eg. Robert the Bruce)?

No.

Since "Celts" are simply people that spoke or used the Celtic language there could be French, English, Irish, and others that qualify. (yes, French. The Gauls were considered Celtic progenitors, some of whom stayed and made France)

I suppose an argument could be made for their removal since they are not a "civilization" but rather a class of language speakers.

Or just make Celtus the leader. He's supposed to be anyway. (In Roman mythology he was the son of Herecles and Keltine and the primogenitor of the Celts)

Tom P.

[padillah]

Originally posted by johnmcd


I'd like to see England given English leaders and an English unique unit rather than conflating England and Britain.

The problem for me isn't really the absence of a Scottish leader so much as the confusion of England and Britain - especially when the Scots contributed so much to Britain's success.

Agreed

I don't know if you can classify Robert the Bruce as a Celt given his Norman ancestry. Alexander or somone maybe...

Um, what Norman lineage? His mother was not only Gaelic but gave him the title of Earl of Carrnak. His father had a Scottish lineage that allowed him to lay claim to the Scottish throne.

He was a wishy-washy push over when it came to Edward I and the Scots (flipping sides enough that his assertion of the throne had to be forced and was followed by major upheval. He never did have a kindom until Edward I died).

Tom P.

[Will9]

Originally posted by padillah


No.

Since "Celts" are simply people that spoke or used the Celtic language there could be French, English, Irish, and others that qualify. (yes, French. The Gauls were considered Celtic progenitors, some of whom stayed and made France)

I suppose an argument could be made for their removal since they are not a "civilization" but rather a class of language speakers.

Or just make Celtus the leader. He's supposed to be anyway. (In Roman mythology he was the son of Herecles and Keltine and the primogenitor of the Celts)

Tom P.

Most Celts in France would be in the northwestern France which was where many Britians fled to before the Saxon invasion. Although some of the first inhabitants of Britain were celts most English are decendants of the Angles, Saxons (Both Germanic tribes), and Jutes (Danes). Some Spianish people may be decendants of the celts. Most are probably desendants of Visigoths or of the Muslim invaders.

[johnmcd]

Originally posted by padillah


Agreed



Um, what Norman lineage? His mother was not only Gaelic but gave him the title of Earl of Carrnak. His father had a Scottish lineage that allowed him to lay claim to the Scottish throne.

His father's line was from Normandy, his name is really Robert de Brus, but that is trivia rather than a reason he shouldn't be a Celtic leader. Scottish geneology is so messed up with Normans, Vikings, Celts and Picts that it really makes no odds.

Will9, Scottish geneology and English geneology are quite different. Your points are probably very true for England, but not so for Scotland.

[padillah]

Originally posted by johnmcd


His father's line was from Normandy, his name is really Robert de Brus, but that is trivia rather than a reason he shouldn't be a Celtic leader. Scottish geneology is so messed up with Normans, Vikings, Celts and Picts that it really makes no odds.

Ah, thanks for that. I'm trying to get some of this history straight in my head but, since history is written by the victor, it's hard to get a bead.

Will9, Scottish geneology and English geneology are quite different. Your points are probably very true for England, but not so for Scotland.

I think he's responding to my claim that Frech people could conceivably be called "Celts" since the Gauls settled in that region long ago.

Thanks for the clarification Will9.

Tom P.

[Will9]

Originally posted by johnmcd


Will9, Scottish geneology and English geneology are quite different. Your points are probably very true for England, but not so for Scotland.

When I said most Britains are decedants of Angles, Saxons, and Jutes I meant most English. Edited.

[Bkeela]

I voted for Greeks.

I hate Alexander. To me, he represents such a tedious, illegitimate part of Greek history.

When I think Greek history, I think of the philosophers and scientists. I think of great traders. I want a leader who reflects those attributes: someone with science production and commerce as traits.

[One_more_turn]

England means the Land of the Angles.

You may wonder where that leaves the Saxons. Well, the Land of the Saxons still lies in Germany.

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Bkeela
I voted for Greeks.

I hate Alexander. To me, he represents such a tedious, illegitimate part of Greek history.

When I think Greek history, I think of the philosophers and scientists. I think of great traders. I want a leader who reflects those attributes: someone with science production and commerce as traits.

Well, Alexander's not really Greek. He's a Macedonian Hellenophile (at least before he became a Parsophile). He doesn't really reflect the Greeks' cultural behavior. Thus, I think Pericles is a great option.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Son of David



Well, some would say that Arabs are all the same anyway.

Yeah, but SOME people are stupid ALL of the time.


There's a world of difference between Bedouin and city Arabs, between the expansionist Umayyads and the Abbasids, who altered the nature of Islam to a Persianized civilization with Arab rulers.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Alexander01
Well, Alexander's not really Greek.

I hope Markos shows up to offer his opinion on this important matter

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by LordShiva


I hope Markos shows up to offer his opinion on this important matter

I don't know enough about Porus to give an opinion.

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by molly bloom

Yeah, but SOME people are stupid ALL of the time.

That's certainly true enough.