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**LordShiva** · July 18, 2006, 10:14

Originally posted by Locutus
As someone who's worked on both (in both cases in a very minor way), I unfortunately have to tell you it's not.

The CtP2 scenario was a truely amazing piece of work (apart from a few glaring bugs -- as the rest of the game it was released before it was done), very few people could come up with something great like that. It raised the bar for scenarios on this topic almost impossibly high.

Harlan (who designed the CtP2 scenario) was a genius. I don't wanna say anything bad about the guy who designed the Civ4 scenario, but he's not Harlan. You can't expect the same standard of work from someone who's less genius and had less time.

I'm not saying it's a bad scenario (not commenting on that, you'll have to find that out for yourself), but I wouldn't want you to get your hopes up unreasonably high -- you'd only setting yourself up for a dissappointment no matter how good this scenario might be.

It was a truly amazing piece of work. If Warlords' is half as good, I'll still be happy

**monkspider** · July 18, 2006, 10:24

I've never played the CTP2 Alexander scenario. Anyone care to elaborate on what made it so classic?

**Solver** · July 18, 2006, 10:49

Harlan. That's what makes it a classic - well, you have to play to see. Harlan indeed just is able to make scenarios fun and right on so many ways.

**Imran Siddiqui** · July 18, 2006, 11:25

I think he wanted a BIT more explination than that. And so do I. Why was it so much a classic... and don't say "Harlan", what did Harlan DO to the scen? Or else it just sounds like nostalgia for nostalgia's sake.

**LordShiva** · July 18, 2006, 11:28

Originally posted by Locutus
The CtP2 scenario was a truely amazing piece of work (apart from a few glaring bugs

As an aside, here's a bug that I experienced - I conquered the Persians, but Alexander was away fighting somewhere else. I got the message: Alexander will be crowned Emperor in Babylon. So I took him to Babylon, and nothing happened

**LordShiva** · July 18, 2006, 11:31

Originally posted by monkspider
I've never played the CTP2 Alexander scenario. Anyone care to elaborate on what made it so classic?

Mostly, the scripting. Events could trigger really cool stuff.

Also, that epic feel.

**Thedrin** · July 18, 2006, 11:33

I just had a search for it in the CtPII forum. No luck. Any thread suggestions?

**Locutus** · July 18, 2006, 12:02

Originally posted by monkspider
What is your favorite of the Warlords scenarios Locutus?

Haven't even played them all yet

I initially had some technical issues with Warlords and I was a tester for another game as well, so I haven't had much time to test Warlords. Rather than testing all scenarios a little bit I focused on the ones that seemed like they needed the most work. So what are likely to be the best scenarios (or at least what were that before I was done with them

) I haven't played at all yet.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I think he wanted a BIT more explination than that. And so do I. Why was it so much a classic... and don't say "Harlan", what did Harlan DO to the scen? Or else it just sounds like nostalgia for nostalgia's sake.

There was a time when dropping the name Harlan was enough. Alas, people don't know their history anymore

Harlan's scenarios (whether for CtP2 or Civ2) are great because they are incredibly rich and accurate in historical texture (I don't think I've ever met anyone who knew more about history than Harlan, myself included). They offer good, well-balanced and very challenging gameplay (including a good AI that actually fights back, something that many scenarios lack) and they always offer innovative gameplay concepts (his LotR scenario for Civ2 in 1996 even completely revolutionised scenario making at the time). He can translate historical concepts and events to gameplay elements like noone else. There aren't really two or three features you can name that make his scenarios great, as Solver says you have to play them to understand.

Many reviewers at the time rated the Alexander scenario higher than the regular game, it was described as a game in itself. And even today Harlan's Civ2 scenarios are still regarded as some of the finest ever made for that game even though some of them are 10 years old. Definitely not nostalgia...

**Locutus** · July 18, 2006, 12:03

Originally posted by Thedrin
I just had a search for it in the CtPII forum. No luck. Any thread suggestions?

It shipped with the game, you have to own a copy of it.

Originally posted by LordShiva
As an aside, here's a bug that I experienced - I conquered the Persians, but Alexander was away fighting somewhere else. I got the message: Alexander will be crowned Emperor in Babylon. So I took him to Babylon, and nothing happened

There were a lot of bugs with it. I fixed all of those (or at least all known ones) a couple of years after release and added some new gameplay elements that Harlan had always planned on adding but never got around to due to time pressure. Unfortunately the Apolyton Version of CtP2 introduced a huge bug to the scenario that slows the game down so much that it becomes unplayayble, I never managed to fixing that (of course, this was around the time I was invited to work on Civ4, I never really had the time)...

**Thedrin** · July 18, 2006, 12:23

Originally posted by Locutus

It shipped with the game, you have to own a copy of it.

I meant I was looking for a thread where people described their experiences of Harlan's Alexander scenario.

**Locutus** · July 18, 2006, 12:37

I don't think you'll find many. First of all because all the the threads from the time the game was released are in the archives, which unfortunately aren't searchable. And secondly because the people on the forum were always mostly interested in discusssing the bugs, rather than the things that made it great. Pretty much the same happened with Civ4: you rarely see threads on the scenarios that came with the game and when you do it's about the problems people are having with them. Yet at the same time I do get a lot of private comments or see comments in completely unrelated threads where people say how much they like certain scenarios (whether for CtP or Civ4). As was discussed recently in another thread, many more people seem to play (and enjoy) scenarios than are actually discussing them.

**Thedrin** · July 18, 2006, 12:45

Well, I just found this (contains spoilers) which does give some information about the way the scenario was set out. Sounds good.

**monkspider** · July 18, 2006, 13:31

Man, that sounds like a pretty amazing scenario with all the scripted events and everything.

**Ekmek** · July 18, 2006, 14:26

Originally posted by Locutus
Unfortunately the Apolyton Version of CtP2 introduced a huge bug to the scenario that slows the game down so much that it becomes unplayayble, I never managed to fixing that (of course, this was around the time I was invited to work on Civ4, I never really had the time)...

I think we fixed that bug and ctp2 seems real fast now. I guess I'm going to have to give the Ctp2 Alex Scenario a whirl now...

**DrSpike** · July 18, 2006, 14:45

I usually end up not liking the scenarios, but have hopes they will have come up with something worthwhile this time.

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