University of Sankore Confirmed PLUS Images of the Bezerker and MORE!

[Lambiorix_be]

Originally posted by Solver
This is seriously funny. This cultural, world-changing talk is all really subjective to a small part of the world, or the specific culture.

Take the Internet again. I'm a tech guy, a big Internet user and advocate, so you certainly don't need to convince me that the Internet is huge. Yet, the total number of Internet users is estimated at around 1 billion (reference). That's a bit less than 1/6th of the world's population. Has the Internet revolutionized lives of people in developed Western countries, or indeed the posters here? Yes. Yet, about 85% in the world don't use it, and for people in, say, Africa, Internet has most certainly not made a revolution in their lives.

Bach and "European culture". That is also a highly local thing. I do not deny Bach's importance to Europe, but I'd like to remind you that Europe is very small population-wise. It amounts to 11%-12% of world population. That goes to show just how much of a "global" impact European culture really has.

And of course, 16th century Europeans were brutal savages who mostly enjoyed plundering the treasure of other civilizatons and wiping out any civilization that was 5 centuries behind in military technology. How's that for a fair representation of Europe.

I understand what you're saying and indeed one does not has to over-estimate the importance of european culture. However you cannot relate it to the current world poulation either. Let's take your example 'Bach', in every world city you will have people playing Bach and classical music in general, also look at the world cup soccer, it may sound trivial but it is another example how european culture (i.e. modern soccer) spread throughout all corners of the globe. English, Spansih, French are also spoken in many part of the world.

So we should not underestimate 'european culture' either.

[Badtz Maru]

Originally posted by Lambiorix_be also look at the world cup soccer, it may sound trivial but it is another example how european culture (i.e. modern soccer) spread throughout all corners of the globe.

But the Olmecs invented football in 1500 BC!

[monkspider]

Originally posted by Badtz Maru


Except for Nigeria. The internet is VERY important to their economy.

http://www.419eater.com/

As for my thoughts on the University of Sankore, I am pretty positive about it. I can appreciate using a rather exotic and unknown non-Western building as a Wonder. It did throw me off a bit at first, but I like that they are using something new instead of the same old tired Masoleums, Statues of Zeus, etc.

[Arrian]

I sincerely doubt CIV is in danger of undervaluing European (or, perhaps more accurately, Western) culture, Lambiorix. A quick glance at the game ought to put that to rest.

-Arrian

[Imran Siddiqui]

And, as it stands, the University of Sankore, like almost all things from the period of Muslim hegemony over the Middle East, Africa, and Parts of Asia, is obscure, unimportant, and utterly useless to a game trying to give us the highest achievements of human kind, not the lesser ones.

You can contend that the University of Sankore is "important" all you want, but you still have no shown how it is "important" to anybody but a few backwards Africans living in a region without water, electricity, and any other of the basic conveniences which the west and east takes with a grain of salt.

Just when I thought the bigotry couldn't get worse. "A few backwards Africans", Muslim world coming up with nothing important? Let us forget about algebra, for one, among other important innovations and the preservation of classical Greek and Roman texts.

You can yell to the rafters "PC", but you futile attempts to hide your bigotry is not working.

[Arrian]

I like the "takes with a grain of salt" too.

You mean takes for granted, I imagine. Takes with a grain of salt... what, we're suspicious that running water and electricity might just be hoaxes? THERE IS NO SPOON!! AHHHHHH!!!



-Arrian

[LordShiva]

[Lambiorix_be]

Originally posted by Badtz Maru


But the Olmecs invented football in 1500 BC!

you're correct that most ancient civ's had something similar. That's why i referred to modern soccer (Cambridge Rules of 1848 i believe)

[Lambiorix_be]

Originally posted by Autotropx Sox
It doesn't matter if you think I am owned or not Lord Shiva.

The point still stands that the University of Sankore was a religious monastery teaching philosophy and theology related to Islam, not science, mathematics, and generally important things which have contributed to modern ideas, beliefs, and cultural values. Sure, if Islam had became the prominent force in the world and had stomped Europe out during the Middle Ages, its impact on the modern world would be great; but it didn't.

And, as it stands, the University of Sankore, like almost all things from the period of Muslim hegemony over the Middle East, Africa, and Parts of Asia, is obscure, unimportant, and utterly useless to a game trying to give us the highest achievements of human kind, not the lesser ones.

You can contend that the University of Sankore is "important" all you want, but you still have no shown how it is "important" to anybody but a few backwards Africans living in a region without water, electricity, and any other of the basic conveniences which the west and east takes with a grain of salt.

Honestly, keep your PC propaganda at home.

The tone of this post does not belong in this forum. Before insulting a large part of the world please consult some history lessons. you will find it enlightning.

[Arbarbonif]

Originally posted by Arrian
I like the "takes with a grain of salt" too.

You mean takes for granted, I imagine. Takes with a grain of salt... what, we're suspicious that running water and electricity might just be hoaxes? THERE IS NO SPOON!! AHHHHHH!!!



-Arrian

Don't you know that the so called 'electricity' is just a lie, told to hide the insidious work of the electron gnomes! They are everywhere, man, everywhere!!!

And don't even get me started on the 'fluid dynamics' conspiracy... The colloid mafia might get me....

*dons tinfoilHat*

[Arrian]

Few things are more repugnant than ignorance mixed with arrogance.

-Arrian

[Autotropx Sox]

Ignorance, honestly, knows no bounds

Algebra was developed in Ancient Babylon, not in the Islamic Era middle east, in the first millennium B.C.. Algebraic formulations and compositions then spread from the Middle-East to India, Egypt, and Greece where it was being used long before Muhammad ibn Mûsâ al-kwârizmî published The book of Summary Concerning Calculating by Transposition and Reduction.

And yet, for all of the yelling and critiques of me being a bigot and "euro centrist", in spite of the fact that I grew up in Malaysia, I have yet to see one credible thing actually making the Islamic world of the Middle Ages, its "golden age", a credible period to add into the game. They simply didn't accomplish anything except for the spread of their religion into Asia, Africa, and Europe.

Sorry, but I simply won't give credit to a people who's only contribute to this world was a militarist religion and a "manifest destiny" to conquer the world for Allah.

[Solver]

See you in two weeks, Autotropx, that is way over the line.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Autotropx Sox
It doesn't matter if you think I am owned or not Lord Shiva.

You're right. But it matters if Solver does

[Louis XXIV]

Originally posted by Will9
So if the University of Sankore is the third wonder what does this mean for The Mausoleum of Mausollos.

http://media.pc.ign.com/media/818/818084/img_3565773.html

I've been convinced since I saw that photo, but all this talk makes me unsure what the third wonder will be.

Artemis, Mausoleum, and Sankore (isn't that right?)