University of Sankore Confirmed PLUS Images of the Bezerker and MORE!

[LordShiva]

Autotropx:

[Lambiorix_be]

Originally posted by Autotropx Sox

Stable for Mounted

...so, I guess, with next expansion, we can expect a Siege Facory and other generic RTS buildings to give different unit types experience? Seriously, this adds nothing to the game.

University of Sankore

Ah, PC wonders sure are fun

I must say that I am a bit worried that Firaxis is going down the road of 'rise of nations'. This expansion 'Warlords' specifically targets conquest players. And although I liked RON, the difference with the civ series is that the latter I keep playing and other one is now tucked away for ever. I hope I'm wrong

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Lambiorix_be
I must say that I am a bit worried that Firaxis is going down the road of 'rise of nations'. This expansion 'Warlords' specifically targets conquest players. And although I liked RON, the difference with the civ series is that the latter I keep playing and other one is now tucked away for ever. I hope I'm wrong

That is on of my fears of Civ4 as well. The whole RTS-style interface, "Normal" and "Quick" play, etc. But that's a different thread.

That said, putting something in the game for conquest players
As it stands, there's not enough war in vanilla Civ4.

[Solver]

This is seriously funny. This cultural, world-changing talk is all really subjective to a small part of the world, or the specific culture.

Take the Internet again. I'm a tech guy, a big Internet user and advocate, so you certainly don't need to convince me that the Internet is huge. Yet, the total number of Internet users is estimated at around 1 billion (reference). That's a bit less than 1/6th of the world's population. Has the Internet revolutionized lives of people in developed Western countries, or indeed the posters here? Yes. Yet, about 85% in the world don't use it, and for people in, say, Africa, Internet has most certainly not made a revolution in their lives.

Bach and "European culture". That is also a highly local thing. I do not deny Bach's importance to Europe, but I'd like to remind you that Europe is very small population-wise. It amounts to 11%-12% of world population. That goes to show just how much of a "global" impact European culture really has.

And of course, 16th century Europeans were brutal savages who mostly enjoyed plundering the treasure of other civilizatons and wiping out any civilization that was 5 centuries behind in military technology. How's that for a fair representation of Europe.

[Stuie]

Originally posted by Solver
Yet, about 85% in the world don't use it, and for people in, say, Africa, Internet has most certainly not made a revolution in their lives.

Very true.

The Cell Phone would be more appropriate as a modern wonder. Seriously.

[Autotropx Sox]

It doesn't matter if you think I am owned or not Lord Shiva.

The point still stands that the University of Sankore was a religious monastery teaching philosophy and theology related to Islam, not science, mathematics, and generally important things which have contributed to modern ideas, beliefs, and cultural values. Sure, if Islam had became the prominent force in the world and had stomped Europe out during the Middle Ages, its impact on the modern world would be great; but it didn't.

And, as it stands, the University of Sankore, like almost all things from the period of Muslim hegemony over the Middle East, Africa, and Parts of Asia, is obscure, unimportant, and utterly useless to a game trying to give us the highest achievements of human kind, not the lesser ones.

You can contend that the University of Sankore is "important" all you want, but you still have no shown how it is "important" to anybody but a few backwards Africans living in a region without water, electricity, and any other of the basic conveniences which the west and east takes with a grain of salt.

Honestly, keep your PC propaganda at home.

[Solver]

Wow, you are one very arrogant person, Autotropx. Do you think that only the Western culture is worth anything, and the Africans are backward people? They do often live without what we cosider the very basic conveniences, but that doesn't mean their history or culture ir less deserving.

The primary subjects were the Qur’an, Islamic studies, law and literature. Other subjects included medicine and surgery, astronomy, mathematics, physics, chemistry, philosophy, language and linguistics, geography, history and art. The students also spent time in learning a trade and business code and ethics. The university trade shops offered classes in business, carpentry, farming, fishing, construction, shoe making, tailoring, navigation etc.

Please read this link before you claim that Sankore was merely a monastery teaching Islamic thought and tradition.

[Badtz Maru]

Originally posted by Autotropx Sox
It doesn't matter if you think I am owned or not Lord Shiva.

The point still stands that the University of Sankore was a religious monastery teaching philosophy and theology related to Islam, not science, mathematics, and generally important things which have contributed to modern ideas, beliefs, and cultural values. Sure, if Islam had became the prominent force in the world and had stomped Europe out during the Middle Ages, its impact on the modern world would be great; but it didn't.

Islam is the world's second largest religion, and that's only if you consider all of Christianities very different sects one religion (yes, I'm aware of the Sunni/Shiite split, but those differences are mostly political and Sunni and Shiite Islam are much more alike theologically than Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox Christianity). Islamic scholars are responsible for preserving much of the knowledge of classical scholars that otherwise would have been lost. They invented the numerical system used by most of the world.

Four of the ten most populous nations in the world are primarily Muslim, and they have a large presence in #2 and #3. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. For most of it's history, it was also the most progressive major religion in the world, giving women and non-believers rights that the Christian world denied for hundreds of years.

Only someone who is extremely ignorant or closed minded could say that Islam's impact on the modern world is insignificant.

[Will9]

So if the University of Sankore is the third wonder what does this mean for The Mausoleum of Mausollos.

http://media.pc.ign.com/media/818/818084/img_3565773.html

I've been convinced since I saw that photo, but all this talk makes me unsure what the third wonder will be.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Badtz Maru
They invented the numerical system used by most of the world.

While I agree with everything else you said, this is incorrect.

[Badtz Maru]

Originally posted by LordShiva


While I agree with everything else you said, this is incorrect.

Oops...I had heard our number system referred to as Arabic numbers, but I just now checked and saw that it was an Arabic interpretation of the Hindu number system. I stand corrected.

Muslim's were still very important in the development of modern mathematics in the western world. It was a Muslim scholar whose treatise "On the Calculation with Hindu Numerals" was translated into Latin and was studied much by Christian scholars. If it wasn't for Al-Khwarizmi, we might still be counting with Roman numerals.

[johnmcd]

I believe all wonders should be based on Chinese, Roman or British civilisation as nobody else has really had as much impact.

[Badtz Maru]

Originally posted by Solver
Has the Internet revolutionized lives of people in developed Western countries, or indeed the posters here? Yes. Yet, about 85% in the world don't use it, and for people in, say, Africa, Internet has most certainly not made a revolution in their lives.

Except for Nigeria. The internet is VERY important to their economy.

[monkspider]

Originally posted by Simplicity
Ah, monkspider. There's the site I was referring to that confirmed the Wikipedia. I knew it was out there somewhere.

I offically dub you Apolyton's master of finding obscure information.

[Arrian]

Hilarious stuff from Autotropx Sox in this thread.

Talk about a Eurocentric worldview.

the University of Sankore, like almost all things from the period of Muslim hegemony over the Middle East, Africa, and Parts of Asia, is obscure, unimportant, and utterly useless to a game trying to give us the highest achievements of human kind...

Ah, so if it's Muslim it doesn't count. If it was once important but is now lost, it doesn't count?

There's TONS of stuff in the game from downfallen civilizations. From the Pyramids to Chitzen Izta (hell, the Maya aren't even in the game technically and they fell a lot further than did the Muslims). Just because Timbuktu (sp?) isn't all that impressive NOW doesn't mean it wasn't in medieval times. Bloody hell, have you no concept of history, man?

-Arrian