A Mesopotamian Civ

[Nikolai]

I think that was his point, that Persia is in and that he doesn't want any more in. Am I right wardhali?

[Louis XXIV]

Persia isn't Mesopotamian, they're Iranian.

[Nikolai]

They did own a good bit of Mesopotamia for a while you know. And gamewise, it isn't much place in the Middle East and sorroundings as it is.

[wardhali]

Originally posted by Alexander01


Um, Persia is in the game...

... *backs away slowly*... ... ... ...

[Louis XXIV]

Originally posted by Nikolai
They did own a good bit of Mesopotamia for a while you know. And gamewise, it isn't much place in the Middle East and sorroundings as it is.

So did Macedonia. I wouldn't consider them mesopotamian. Mesopotamia is known as the Cradle of Civilization. Civilization flurished there when Persia was insignificant. Great empires were created along with great monuments. Those who followed tried to surpass those that came before, but that's why they have the advantage of following. If we just count those who followed, we could narrow it to a handful of civs that simply did better than those before. But, instead, the game tries to represent a great many who made significant achievement. That's why Persia and Greece are in the game, along with Rome, and, in the previous games, Babylon (to represent the cradle of civilization).

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Louis XXIV


So did Macedonia. I wouldn't consider them mesopotamian. Mesopotamia is known as the Cradle of Civilization. Civilization flurished there when Persia was insignificant. Great empires were created along with great monuments. Those who followed tried to surpass those that came before, but that's why they have the advantage of following. If we just count those who followed, we could narrow it to a handful of civs that simply did better than those before. But, instead, the game tries to represent a great many who made significant achievement. That's why Persia and Greece are in the game, along with Rome, and, in the previous games, Babylon (to represent the cradle of civilization).

I concur. I view Mesopotamia as crucially important aspect of global civilization that is currently neglected in Civ4. While I feel that Babylon is the best representative, I'd really be satisfied with Sumer or Assyria, just so long as we don't forget the cradle of Civ.

[Xorbon]

Yosho
Exactly how I feel.

The point I was making was: pick either Sumer or Babylon, not both. They're baically the same civilization with different centres of power at different points of time. It would be like having each of the dynasties of China represented instead of just having China.

Not that I'm totally against having both. Just when there are so many civs to choose from, I don't see the point in having ancient Mesopotamia represented twice. (Ditto for Rome/Byzantium.)


But to get back on topic, don't people think of Babylon before Sumer because Babylon is mentioned in the Bible? People who have heard Bible stories would have heard about Babylon at one point or another, even if they've never heard of Hammurabi and his laws.

[Louis XXIV]

Probably. But that's true of Assyria as well. They were extremely powerful militarily so, among other things, they conquered Israel. But, because they conquered Israel, they are known. Nineveh was a great city full of culture, but its location was discovered because locals in the area referred to it as "Jonah's city".

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Louis XXIV
Probably. But that's true of Assyria as well. They were extremely powerful militarily so, among other things, they conquered Israel. But, because they conquered Israel, they are known. Nineveh was a great city full of culture, but its location was discovered because locals in the area referred to it as "Jonah's city".

And that leads to further discussion of why the Hebrews should be in the game (cultural impact). But that belongs in another thread.

[Blaupanzer]

Babylon, Assyria, and the Hittites all belong in the game. Leads to the question: Do most of us expect one more expansion even as we wait for this one? Really belongs in another thread, saw one related to this a while back.

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer
Leads to the question: Do most of us expect one more expansion even as we wait for this one?

Absolutely.

[Bobtoad]

The Babylonians were always my favorite civilization to play as. And the Hanging Gardens have always been my favorite wonder.

I miss bringing glory to ol' Babylon dearly...