How to Get Great Generals Revealed? Plus more info on Vassal States!

[monkspider]

"The way you get one is everytime you are attacking and you are successful in combat, your units gain experience. That was already in Civ IV. But in Warlords they also gain great people points and eventually you will be rewarded with a great general."

Barry Caudill, from the recent chat with IGN/Gamespy

Interesting, does this mean that every experience point your units gain add up to great general points? Sounds cool.

Also interesting was his description of vassal states.

"You might demand that they become your vassal or you might be doing so well that they beg to become your vassal. At that point you share research, you share technologies, their land counts as your land for domination victories, things like that. But you also share *inaudible*. But the thing is it's a set period of time like a peace treaty so their's a possibility that at the end of that period they could decide that they've been building back up so you could find that they're back at war with you. "


Very neat, Warlords is shaping up to be a heckuva XP.

[Smellycowsquid]

My only question: the above quote says you share research, What if you are very far ahead of the vassal in tech, do they get all your techs?

[Solver]

But you also share *inaudible*

[monkspider]

Originally posted by Solver

But you also share *inaudible*

[LordShiva]

Re: How to Get Great Generals Revealed? Plus more info on Vassal States!

Originally posted by monk-eating spider
"You might demand that they become your vassal or you might be doing so well that they beg to become your vassal. At that point you share research, you share technologies, their land counts as your land for domination victories, things like that. But you also share *inaudible*. But the thing is it's a set period of time like a peace treaty so their's a possibility that at the end of that period they could decide that they've been building back up so you could find that they're back at war with you. "

So they get all your techs and *inaudible*, build up, and declare war with you?

In that case:

Making civs vassals instead of destroying them outright is for hippies

[Son of David]

To be honest I'm really indifferent to the whole 'great general' concept, not least because I am a warmonger already and manage just fine as I am.

But the vassal states concept sounds absolutely ace. The game was sore missing a system where you can beat an AI and get it to thoroughly surrender.

I can't wait to have my troops garrisoned in another civ's cities, and to have them completely under my heel. There are so many advantages to this. Another plus is that it means all the remaining AI cities keep their buildings and their proximity to their own civ's palace.

All the warmonger has to do is make sure he has enough units there to maintain his hegemony.

ACE.

[Nugog]

Re: Re: How to Get Great Generals Revealed? Plus more info on Vassal States!

Originally posted by LordShiva


So they get all your techs and *inaudible*, build up, and declare war with you?

When you look at it that way, it's not a great ad for vassal states!

[Smellycowsquid]

Re: Re: How to Get Great Generals Revealed? Plus more info on Vassal States!

Originally posted by LordShiva


So they get all your techs and *inaudible*, build up, and declare war with you?

In that case:

Making civs vassals instead of destroying them outright is for hippies

What is it with you and hippies?!

[axisworks]

What about civics? I'm guessing, like Poland to the USSR and such, a vassal state would have to adopt the same civics... and religion?

[Nugog]

I'm guessing that the vassal state would take on your civics and state religion (if any).

What about the leadership traits and the effects of those? For example if you are spiritual and are changing civics frequently, and they are not, how will the anarchy period be dealt with?

Also will you as the "leader" state get access to the vassal states gold and UU's?

And another weird thought, on SP would it be possible for the human player to become a vasal state of the AI? If the vassal state situation is only for a defined period of time, and the vassal state gains access to the "leader" states techs - it may be an interesting option if you are lagging behind. (maybe)

[Ijuin]

Originally posted by Smellycowsquid
My only question: the above quote says you share research, What if you are very far ahead of the vassal in tech, do they get all your techs?

Think about the European colonial empires of the 16th-19th centuries. The less advanced nations were reduced to the status of protectorates/colonies, and were forced to conform to the legal standards of the imperial nation(s) controlling them (in Civ4 terms, forced to take on the imperial nation's civics), but benefitted from the superior European technology as their new overlords brought in more advanced medicine, metallurgy, industrial techniques, etc.

[ScreamingCube]

im still not sure exactly what you gain from this, if you have the upper hand though. Instead of finishing off the civilization, you let them survive and possibly fight you another day? How is this any different than a peace treaty, other than that you might have access to their gold or something?

I was hoping for something like in Alpha Centauri, where you beat another faction and they agree to serve you from there on.

[Nugog]

Originally posted by ScreamingCube
I was hoping for something like in Alpha Centauri, where you beat another faction and they agree to serve you from there on.

That would seem more appropriate.

Maybe there will be ways to keep the vassal state subjugated, either from a tech/military point of view. If not, and if the time frame for them staying a vassal state is short, then it seems to be a weird mix of peace treaty and perm alliance.

If so the only use I can see is if you are fighting on two fronts, subjugate one opponent into vassalage, use their forces with yours to knock off opponent two, (using vasal states troops as cannon fodder), then attack the vassal state while they are in a weakened position.

[Forwarn45]

I can see several advantages to vassalage - particularly since research is shared. You would have dramatically lower upkeep with a vassal. Moreover, if you and the vassal had a civic like bureaucracy - then both your capitals would get the bonus. Also, since you don't have to completely crush the vassal - you don't have to worry about losing productivity in their cities during civil disorder and losing the buildings that are destroyed when taking a city. And of course there is getting to use their military rather than having to destroy it.

On a personal note, I am looking forward to the change as I find crushing an already beaten adversary to be a bit dull.

[Son of David]

Originally posted by Forwarn45
I can see several advantages to vassalage - particularly since research is shared. You would have dramatically lower upkeep with a vassal. Moreover, if you and the vassal had a civic like bureaucracy - then both your capitals would get the bonus. Also, since you don't have to completely crush the vassal - you don't have to worry about losing productivity in their cities during civil disorder and losing the buildings that are destroyed when taking a city. And of course there is getting to use their military rather than having to destroy it.

On a personal note, I am looking forward to the change as I find crushing an already beaten adversary to be a bit dull.

Exactly, the main advantage is taking all of their technologies. As it stands now you can wear a civ down to one city, and surround it with a gazillion units, but it will still refuse to give its technologies to you in a peace treaty.

The second advantage is as you said the benefit of your vassal retaining their palace, which from the conquerer's point of view is like having another forbidden palace or Versaille.

The third advantage is that it is a peace treaty WITH open borders and presumably the ability to station planes and troops in vassal territory.

The final advantage is that you could theoretically make a vassal simply by threatening, without ever actually having to attack the vassal civ. E.g. when you are a massive superpower with your own continent and your ally on a little island on the other side of the world wants your protection. In return, you get all their gold and tech.