Argh! What do I do?!?

[Yosho]

If you want to win a culture victory, early wonders help of course, but the real key to winning a culture vicotry is to get a large tech lead over the AI's, get all the key culture techs, lots of cathedrals and Rock and Roll, the Eiffel Tower, and those key late-game wonders that give you a % increase on your culture, and then take that huge economy and in the end-game turn 90% of it over to making culture.

A culture win is really just another kind of economic win; in games where I've gotten a culture win, I was usually far ahead economically enough that I could have changed my mind and gone for the space race at the last minute and still won fairly easily.

Anyway, I would suggest that you don't worry about getting a culture win right now. It's somewhat less straightfoward then a domination win or a space race win, and unlike conquest or techs, culture in your core dosn't do anything for you right away.

Your primary goals in civ are ALWAYS your economy and millitary. Everything you do should feed into one of those two goals. Every time you get a tech, think about which option would help your economy the most, or which option would help your millitary the most. You have to always do both millitary and economy; if you're going for an economic win, like space race or culture, you need a millitary to defend with, and if you're going for a millitary win, you need a strong enough economy to support a lot of cities and still not fall behind the AI's in tech. Which is why you can't build all the wonders; you just don't have time. Focus on things that will either get you more tech or more gold, especally over the long term. A couthouse or a library might seem less important then a wonder, but they're a lot cheaper in hammers, and that few gold you save a turn or those few extra beakers you get a turn really add up.

I would also reccomend that you try playing a civ that's not creative, and instead go for traits that either help your economy (fin, org, spiritual if you use it right, ) or your millitary (aggressive).

[couerdelion]

The points made here about “focus” are particularly useful on the higher levels. In short, get yourself a plan of what you want to do then work the techs and buildings to follow through with the plan. I think the lack of such a plan is one of the main reasons for a game to wander aimlessly through the techs and something that I realise I might be doing.

On the wonders, Pyramids are a big thing and if you’ve got enough food, the representation works very well with specialists. The happiness bonus is also particularly powerful at the early stage in the game. For some reason I have always managed to snag the Pyramids when I have played with the Chinese.

Oracle is a strong play if you want a significant tech slingshot. The best is usually CS but Philo and Metal Casting are also useful.

Despite the bad press for Stonehenge, I’ve found this can be quite useful. It’s main benefit is for the GP points early in the game so works well with an early religion. Some people also use the GP to get themselves the religion. I can also add that Stonehenge helped me in a Deity game to culture flip an AI city – that’s even cheaper than building swordsmen!!

Overall, though I will rarely go for more than one of the early wonders and count myself luck if I get more than two out of Pyramids, Oracle, Great Lighthouse, Colossus and Great Library. As in most cases, a horde of swordsmen is a lot cheap than most wonders – although not much use if the Pyramids are sitting on some other continent.

For me culture is overplayed in this game. It’s real benefit is the first city expansion which happens so soon that it’s barely worth the trouble. When it comes to dominating nearby cities, armies are a lot more effective.

[Rancidlunchmeat]

Originally posted by padillah

But I have a hard time understanding why a specific wonder is better than other wonders.

You discount Stonehenge but, since I usually run a CRE civ that's 3 free culture in every city from day one. Why is that NOT wanted?

Why is it wanted? The Great Library provides a huge boost to research. The Oracle provides a free tech. Those are tangible benefits. So your borders are expanding a turn earlier? How many turns does it take you to build Stonehenge? Is that many turns worth the 1 turn quicker border expansion?

By the same token, and this may have more to do with how poorly I play, I don't see the benefit of the Pyramids. To give me access to something I'm going to get in the course of time anyway?

Don't discount the ability to grab Representation hundreds of years earlier than you otherwise would be able to.

As far as something you're going to get anyway.. isn't that all you're getting from Stonehenge?

I never have enough money in the begining to use US, my production is not that big a deal so Bueracracy is not amazing, and I get slaveryas soon as I get BW which is in another 10 or 15 turns (actually, by the time I finish building the Pyramids I already have Slavery). So why waste time on that wonder?

Representation (or Hereditary Rule ) first, then US after your cottages are towns (mid game, but still far earlier than you would be able to switch through research).

And I think you're mixing up your civics. The Pyramids only give you the ability to run all the Government Civics, that's it.

Meaning once you build them you can switch from Despotism to Hereditary Rule, Representation, Police State, or Universal Sufferage.

Bueracracy is a legal civic, and it has nothing to do with the Pyramids. It's gained through researching Civil Service (thus the CS Slingshot). Saying that it isn't amazing is missing the point. It gives you 50% more production and 50% more commerce (commerce = research) in your capitol.

Slavery is a labor civic and has nothing to do with the Pyramids. It's gained through researching Bronze Working, and is a keystone civic allowing early completion of builds through pop rushing.

Um, oh. I didn't know that. Thanks.

Ever think about the usefulness (or lack thereof) of building multiple shrines if you had to have the particular religion in order to gain the benefit? Most of the time, I don't even adopt a state religion by the time I get to Liberalism and Free Religion.

I've seen Vel's strats (I helped him write one for Civ III) but I've never gotten to a point where I can use one because I never get into the situations presented there. It's always "If your Saladin and you get the Pyramids..." well, what if I miss? Now I've commited to a course that I can't continue and the guide is busy describing some other game.

Hmm.. I've used his tech path outlined in #2 (I think) on all different maps, with all different leaders, in all different situations. Some of his examples are highly lucky (This one he popped Bronze Working from a hut!) It provides a guide. And there should be no reason why you can't follow his guide and complete the CS slingshot on Warlord.

Wars terrify me. I started a thread to try and find out how big an army is supposed to be and I can't get a good answer.

You can out tech and out produce the AI on Warlord. Just build a couple armies of 6-8 axemen and send them against your neighbors. They'll probably only have an archer or two defending, and you're axemen will crush them. Especially if they have City Raider

The AI is a resource, not a threat. AI cities are cities that you don't need to develop or build infrastructure for.

[Rancidlunchmeat]

Here's the thread for the DW I - Completing the Slingshot (I was wrong when I was calling it the II one).

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147474

I'd suggest following it along with a nice map of your choice.. pangea, continents, terra.. whatever, with a random leader.

Just use the workshop as a guide about what to tech next, and what you should be building. Make it your goal to accomplish (IMO) the heart of the strat:

Two cities, Capitol with Library, Academy, Great Library and #2 with Oracle, Temple, and Shrine.

Founding Confucionism, and circumnavigating the globe with your two Caravels.

If you can accomplish those goals in a time frame close to the one that Vel laid out, you'll be set. (Note: the chop nerf will cost you some turns, and Vel got very lucky at some points, so don't freak out if you're 'falling behind'.)

Also, notice that when executing CS Slingshot strats you will fall behind the other Civs in tech/score until the slingshot is completed. Don't fret.. once the slingshot is completed, you'll be far ahead and shouldn't ever fall behind.

[Rancidlunchmeat]

Double Post