Speaking of good starting positions...

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Ijuin


Build farms first and then convert to cottages when you get Pottery. The extra food will help your city to reach its growth cap sooner and thus work those gold hills and the cottages (when you can build cottages).

You're assuming that you have a worker and have learned agriculture, but not pottery. Possibly this will be so, but even if you begin by building a worker, you can finish researching pottery around the same time that your worker is complete.

Certainly, building farms will allow you to get to your growth cap earlier, but you will have less commerce while growing. Non financial civs get an extra commerce as soon as the cottage is built and 1 more ten turns later (at normal speed). And there is an issue about the time taken to build a farm. This is a couple of turns longer than a cottage which delays the point at which you can start mining the gold. The three food from the floodplains gives you a growing surplus even when you build a cottage which means there is enough to work the mined gold.

I have experimented with a start in which there are three floodplains and two gold. The hapiness cap is 5, rising to 6 when the gold is mined. The sequence cottage, cottage, cottage, mine, mine gives about 10% more commerce per turn than the sequence farm, farm, farm, mine, mine. It also produces about 130 more commerce while growing. I haven't looked at converting a farm to a cottage, but I've no reason to believe that it will do any better as far as commerce is concerned.

Three farms will of course give you a larger food surplus which you may be able to use for scientists. In the long run, these produce less research than cottages, but they will get you a Great Scientist and hence an academy. Potentially, getting an academy 10 or 15 turns early could result in more research from the farms approach. But this requires writing, a library and a sufficient food surplus. The extra research from cottages will (probably) get you writing earlier. You may have to take a research hit while generating the GPP, but I don't believe the academy will be early enough to overcome the other advantages of the cottages over the farms.

Specialists aside, the crucial factor is the available technologies. Initial farms may be appropriate if you have agriculture and for strategic reasons don't wish to research pottery. Otherwise, build those cottages.

RJM at Sleeper's

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers

Three farms will of course give you a larger food surplus which you may be able to use for scientists. In the long run, these produce less research than cottages, but they will get you a Great Scientist and hence an academy. Potentially, getting an academy 10 or 15 turns early could result in more research from the farms approach. But this requires writing, a library and a sufficient food surplus. The extra research from cottages will (probably) get you writing earlier. You may have to take a research hit while generating the GPP, but I don't believe the academy will be early enough to overcome the other advantages of the cottages over the farms.

I've done some more experimenting. The research hit while generating the GPP points (comparing an initial farm on the floodplain with a cottage) is quite significant. The greater population allows you to work the gold mine even while you have 2 scientists. I was trying this with Saladin (philosophical) so the benefit only lasts 9 turns - just about enough to overcome the early beaker lead from the cottages. With a non philosophical leader the advantage of the farm would be more clear cut.

In practise, there would probably be other units built and other techs researched which would allow the cottages approach to grow before going for the academy.

If anyone wants to try there own experiments, I attach the position I've been using. It was generated at random, but I then added gold to 2 of the hills within the fat cross.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Mr Justice]

heres another good start, id say ideal for those struggling to break through on emperor level.

i cant be arsed sorting out an image on seperate webspace so ill attach image as file.

you start with
3 silver,
1 sheep,
2 fish
2 crabs
on the coast (but no river )

in your fat square.

the map is standard (new continents) , speed is marathon, your civ is Inca, barbs on. all victory conditions. emporer level.

im in middle ages on this game now, managed to pull off cs sligshot with orcle, and take out one of the civs with an early quecha rush.

[Mr Justice]

image attached.

[Silver14]

Washington start on Prince...



Save game:

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=73882_WashingtonBC-4000.Civ4SavedGame

[couerdelion]

That start would be a bit of a nightmare on Emperor and above. You’d be starting with a health limit of 1 (or lower) so would barely be able to work any of the gold tiles and still generate a food surplus.

And no trees either for those early hammers.

[Urban Ranger]

Chopping is now reduced though.