Speaking of good starting positions...

[billones]

Yeah, it's only on Prince, so most of you should be able to score like 100,000 points from this start.



Best. Start. Ever.

[Ijuin]

Assuming that those two desert tiles are in fact Flood Plains, I would agree with you.

I have no idea which leader you are running--if you have a Financial leader then I would put cottages on those Flood Plains, otherwise I would farm them. Getting that gold and those clams would be an early priority too--this has the makings of a 400 science city once you get an Academy, University, Observatory, and Oxford University in it and run Bureaucracy.

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Ijuin
Assuming that those two desert tiles are in fact Flood Plains, I would agree with you.

I have no idea which leader you are running--if you have a Financial leader then I would put cottages on those Flood Plains, otherwise I would farm them. Getting that gold and those clams would be an early priority too--this has the makings of a 400 science city once you get an Academy, University, Observatory, and Oxford University in it and run Bureaucracy.

Even with a non financial leader, I'd put cottages on the flood plains. In addition to Ijuin's buildings you will have a library. Add a harbour and as many monasteries as you can manage and you'll be generating 600 beakers or more if you can get the income to keep the slider at 100%.

RJM at Sleeper's

[axisworks]

Indeed, cottages on floodplains are golden. Putting farms there is a bit of a waste of potential gold.

I had a fairly nice start recently, myself. I got a free tech and a free scout from two huts that were right near my capital, and this was on monarch.

[Yosho]

Originally posted by axisworks
Indeed, cottages on floodplains are golden. Putting farms there is a bit of a waste of potential gold.

No, not really. Farming the floodplains will allow you to work the mined gold hills and still keep up a fast rate of population growth. An extra +2 food surplus is huge, and will allow you to work many more squares or make more GP points much earlier. Besides, you'll get agraculture long before you get pottery, so why wait that long to get full use out of those squares?

You've got pleanty of other good squares to put cottages on. If you're FIN, then sure, river floodplain cottages are nice, but otherwise, go for the farms I'd say.

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Yosho


No, not really. Farming the floodplains will allow you to work the mined gold hills and still keep up a fast rate of population growth. An extra +2 food surplus is huge, and will allow you to work many more squares or make more GP points much earlier. Besides, you'll get agraculture long before you get pottery, so why wait that long to get full use out of those squares?

You've got pleanty of other good squares to put cottages on. If you're FIN, then sure, river floodplain cottages are nice, but otherwise, go for the farms I'd say.

We are talking about a starting position, and therefore the city will be our capital and thus also our science city. I would build every science improvement I can - Oxford, library, university, observatory, perhaps laboratory and an academy. I would want every unit of commerce I can get in order to maximise science output.

So, are those who want to build farms on flood plains saying that they will get more commerce that way? Or are they saying that the other benefits - eg GP points - outweigh the commerce? Is the argument that you can get more commerce during the growth phase and this exceeds the final benefit of cottages. Or is there some other benefit?

Incidentally, I seem to hit the growth cap fairly quickly (playing at Monarch or higher), so I'm not sure i want to grow much faster.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
We are talking about a starting position, and therefore the city will be our capital and thus also our science city.

Your starting city may not be the best city for research...

[Swiss Pauli]

Originally posted by Yosho

No, not really. Farming the floodplains will allow you to work the mined gold hills and still keep up a fast rate of population growth. An extra +2 food surplus is huge, and will allow you to work many more squares or make more GP points much earlier. Besides, you'll get agraculture long before you get pottery, so why wait that long to get full use out of those squares?

You've got pleanty of other good squares to put cottages on. If you're FIN, then sure, river floodplain cottages are nice, but otherwise, go for the farms I'd say.

As it's a Mongol leader, I'd say get fishing, use the clams to grow then work the gold(s) after researching mining, then pottery (you start with the wheel). Then cottage FPs, leaving one free for possible farm (where you may want/need to chain irrigation).

[samspock]

I frequently regen a map until I have at least one gold hill and flood plains. Usually when that happens there are a lot of flood plains so I can spare a couple for farms and cottege the rest. My favorite starts have three commerce from mines tiles (gold, gems) plus a food special or two and several flood plains plus one oasis square. The oasis will give you three food and three commerce if you are financial making your inital science 12 rather than 9 or 10. Huge advantage early on.

[Bkeela]

I started a game this morning that is perhaps even better than Billones's. I play random leader and never regenerate the map unless I'm attempting a special goal like building all wonders on Noble and above and such, but that was not the case this morning.

The start has two gold resources, two silk (one by a river, suitable for a cottage), 6 flood plains (7 if you include the city location), one cow, and three expendable forests to be chopped. Oh, and my leader is Victoria, and I have the continent all to myself! Any who wish to play this save will be impressed by the rest of the continent as well.

Difficulty: Prince.

[Bkeela]

Stuffed up the attachment. Here it is:

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Your starting city may not be the best city for research...

True, but it will be the capital unless you build another palace. It will therefore get the 50% boost from Bureaucracy. This makes it the most likely site for the GL. And by the same reasoning it will probably be the best location for Oxford. So de facto it's your science city even if it's not the "best" city for research.

RJM at Sleeper's

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Swiss Pauli


As it's a Mongol leader, I'd say get fishing, use the clams to grow then work the gold(s) after researching mining, then pottery (you start with the wheel). Then cottage FPs, leaving one free for possible farm (where you may want/need to chain irrigation).

Chain irrigation is a good argument for 1 farm on a flood plain. But, ... once you have built the second farm, if you go back and build a cottage on the original tile, do you lose the second farm? And if you don't, is this an exploit?

RJM at Sleeper's

[Bkeela]

The chain reverts to non-irrigated if you modify the original square. If you restore the original square the chain comes back online.

[Ijuin]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
So, are those who want to build farms on flood plains saying that they will get more commerce that way? Or are they saying that the other benefits - eg GP points - outweigh the commerce? Is the argument that you can get more commerce during the growth phase and this exceeds the final benefit of cottages. Or is there some other benefit?

Build farms first and then convert to cottages when you get Pottery. The extra food will help your city to reach its growth cap sooner and thus work those gold hills and the cottages (when you can build cottages).