Spaceship comparison game

[solo]

I thought you might ask!

Two cities finished within 6 turns, and I used 1 chop and the whip to finish the remaining university at the same time in the city that was lagging behind. Following that I chopped 3 forests west of Madrid to finish Oxford by 1120.

[mdbill]

In my "mulligan game" where I built the 9 cities by 1 ad and was about to finish Edu. This game also had the G.Lighthouse, Colossus, Oracle, and G. Lib....

I continued my city spamming until reaching 13 ciites. It think that might have been 1 or 2 too many. Inflation is becoming a problem. But maybe it will pay off in the long run...having more cities we learned is good. Doesn't feel as good when you have to run 70% research for a while.

I went on complete the Oxford in 900 AD. I had horrible luck getting anything from the AI. Just Astronomy, no Guilds, no Replaceable parts, etc. While waiting around seemingly forever for free Astronomy, I got Steel, Rep. Parts, Rifling, Biology, and Steam Power. Computers will come in 1520.

[solo]

Oxford that early makes up for some inflation, I think! It will be interesting to see how it turns out, but I think when you jump ahead in research, you really have to be more generous in gifting techs to the AI, if you expect them to be any assistance in picking up freebies. Will you be using National Epic in Madrid this time, too?

If I have some time, I may continue my own "mulligan" game, too, just to see what can be made out of it. For this game, I think a total of 12 cities is probably about just right.

[Swiss Pauli]

Hello again. I squeezed in a few more turns on Sat am and IIRC burnt a GS for demo and started on Liberty in Madrid. Only 7 specialists but once the copper I claimed from Fred comes up it'll be a fair deal and I switched to Eman to generate penalties for the AIs.

Cathy is quite advanced so she should trade me some techs, but my war and demo detourslowed my pace to Comp. After that its buy-rush labs and hope to get Alu without making a silly trade or war.

Should have taken a settler to fill up the land by Cherokee - I ALWAYS overlook that move - Kublai set down an outpost nearby. Will post up my nearest save to 1500 at the w/e.

Save below, where I'm just about to DoW Fred:

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=76188_Swiss_Kirk_AD-1505.Civ4SavedGame

[Swiss Pauli]

Looking at the 1500AD saves that have been posted, I have the following remarks.

Swiss - Increase research to 90% and switch to Physics, trade Horse to Cyrus for Deer and gold, maybe sell Chemistry. Even with 90% research this game is 100bpt behind solo. Research path muddled: too long delay in taking Astro led to research of off-path techs.

solo - trades need renegotiating! Don't think the Muskets will take Cherokee, maybe they should pillage for a while. Research Biology before Steel as you'll want to finish the Labs before starting Ironworks. Kublai's studied on killin you...

RJM - switch Madrid to Grocer, and I see Madrid has an Aqueduct when a Grocer would have been a better build (cash plus health). I also see a Colosseum being built when a Market would be better, especially if you trade stone to Kublai for silks and gold. I see there's some military being built - are you planning a war? Otherwise your Defensive Alliances should allow you to ignore military. Not sure about the research path. Rail/Comb is more or less a dead end and the AI likes them, so you can trade in Comb by the time you need plastics.

I think solo's is the best of the three games, although I'd be tempted to switch to Free Religion soonish to improve AI relations. I'm never happy at having an AGG AI annoyed with me and no strong ally to turn to!

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Swiss Pauli

RJM - switch Madrid to Grocer, and I see Madrid has an Aqueduct when a Grocer would have been a better build (cash plus health). I also see a Colosseum being built when a Market would be better, especially if you trade stone to Kublai for silks and gold. I see there's some military being built - are you planning a war? Otherwise your Defensive Alliances should allow you to ignore military. Not sure about the research path. Rail/Comb is more or less a dead end and the AI likes them, so you can trade in Comb by the time you need plastics.

Thanks for the comments - the military builds are personal nervousness rather than a planned war. Once I've reached gunpowder I like to have a few musketeers and grenadiers around.

I suspect the Aqueduct was built in Madrid when health was an issue and before discovery of guilds (but I can't remember).

Your suggested trade was brilliant (although why Kubla is willing to give silk +7 gold for stone I'm not sure). I usually only trade duplicate resources, forgetting that I might get something useful for a resource I don't currently need.

As far as the research path is concerned, I try to avoid Scientific Method - this may be a mistake.

As far as continuation is concerned, I don't have strong feelings. I'm mildly interested in continuing my save just to see how it goes - but I can do that privately later.

RJM

[Swiss Pauli]

I played out my original game yesterday and launched in 1892, then played out from solo's 1500 save today and launched in 1870.

Sorry for not waiting, but I'm ill with food poisoning, so I didn't have much else to do.

[Swiss Pauli]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers

Your suggested trade was brilliant (although why Kubla is willing to give silk +7 gold for stone I'm not sure). I usually only trade duplicate resources, forgetting that I might get something useful for a resource I don't currently need.

Kublai might be thinking of Oxford. And the AI loves stuff (Uranium, Oil, etc) that it might need further down the line - at which point you cancel the trade!

As far as the research path is concerned, I try to avoid Scientific Method - this may be a mistake.

RJM

I think so...the extra beakers from GLib aren't being spent optimally. In the long run, getting to Comp earlier will surely pay out. I made a similar error concerning Collossus (Astro-Physics) and missed the GS, which is poor.

[rjmatsleepers]

I played through using my AD 1500 save and launched in 1931. Presumably the differences between this and Swiss Pauli's 2 efforts are a combination of starting position and subsequent play. I'm not sure how much is down to each though.

RJM

[solo]

Originally posted by Swiss Pauli
solo - trades need renegotiating! Don't think the Muskets will take Cherokee, maybe they should pillage for a while. Research Biology before Steel as you'll want to finish the Labs before starting Ironworks. Kublai's studied on killin you...

We are missing mdbill's 1500 save to compare with, but I expect he will continue with his own effort, just as you, RJM, and I have done.

Yes, I often neglect to renegotiate old trades. To take Cherokee, I had to wait for a siege weapon and a few grenadiers, so got it late, but earlier enough to benefit from a few of the furs. I researched Biology right after finishing up steel, which was mostly done beforehand.

As for AI, I was only concerned about Catherine, so after trading Military Tradition, I gifted her up to pleased and formed a Defensive Pact, which allowed me to avert wars for the remainder of the game.

Continuing on from my 1500 save, I researched up to Genetics while waiting for Rifling to become available by trade. Meanwhile, Replaceable Parts and Steam Power were also picked up from the AI by trades. During this phase of the game, I became very generous with tech sales, trying to position the AI with the prerequisites for techs I hoped to trade for.

After Assembly Line was learned in 1630, I started on factories and switched research up to Rocketry, which was learned in 1680. With nothing better to do with my new Ironworks in Madrid, I built Rock n Roll by 1690, for some extra happiness and for some extra trades with the AI.

In spite of generous tech gifts, the only other tech on the way to SS completion I got from trade was Industrialization in 1710. I waited until 1720 to go to Free Religion. Apollo was finished a few turns later in 1740, and the Space Elevator later in 1816. Near the end, I used the free Engineer from Fusion along with an Artist to start a Golden Age, which shaved a few turns off the launch date, letting it happen in 1850. A save of the preceding turn is attached.

After finishing my game, I have been playing around with variations of my "mullgian" game and will comment on these later after I am done experimenting.

[Swiss Pauli]

Originally posted by solo

To take Cherokee, I had to wait for a siege weapon and a few grenadiers, so got it late, but earlier enough to benefit from a few of the furs.

I forgot about those guys for a while...but lucky for me, Kublai took out two of the longbows with a Cavalry, leaving me to take the city. Then I dropped the Artist on it.

After Assembly Line was learned in 1630, I started on factories and switched research up to Rocketry, which was learned in 1680. Apollo was finished a few turns later in 1740, and the Space Elevator later in 1816.

When did you research Robotics? I think I delayed Plastics too long when I played your save so I didn't bother with Space Elevator.

I'd like to see how you get on with my game. From 1000AD, it was all downhill for me! Did not play it very well at all after setting myself up nicely.

[solo]

Robotics came in 1785. I will give your game a try when I have a chance.

[uberfish]

I have been distracted by other games, but will try and finish up this one playing straight through from 1AD to end.

[mdbill]

I finished up mine with a launch in 1830.

Emancipation gave me some problems since I wanted to say in Caste System.

I never had any wars. Just stayed with the 13 cites I had.

[Swiss Pauli]

Returning to the comparison dates, I think 1000 AD is a good point to examine things because (at least in these games) there's a chance for a radical change of direction. By 1500 AD, things are much more set.

However, when we step up to Emperor I may be asking for advice every 5 turns based on my games so far!