Expansion Pack: Civs that MUST be included

[LzPrst]

guess noone read my thread-ending post

as this thread has lost all hope of sanity... Lord Shiva... your avatar is the work of a madman. your references to Mr. Banana is clearly a display of considerable derangements and your bananas sodomizing eachother do not fit in this universe. you are truly a unique being.

may the light shine upon you and may your banana always be firm and yellow.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by LzPrst
guess noone read my thread-ending post

as this thread has lost all hope of sanity... Lord Shiva... your avatar is the work of a madman. your references to Mr. Banana is clearly a display of considerable derangements and your bananas sodomizing eachother do not fit in this universe. you are truly a unique being.

may the light shine upon you and may your banana always be firm and yellow.

[LzPrst]

also. no portugese. we cant have a civ whose UU would be goat-shaggers. (thats gonna get me a slap on the wrist)

sorry to say but those portugese infantry look more like something from village people than a fighting unit. of course that may inspire much fear in the enemy...

Go Bananas! I had never thought watching bananas dance could be so enjoyable...

[Luigi de Mérida]

Originally posted by LzPrst
also. no portugese. we cant have a civ whose UU would be goat-shaggers. (thats gonna get me a slap on the wrist)

sorry to say but those portugese infantry look more like something from village people than a fighting unit. of course that may inspire much fear in the enemy...

Go Bananas! I had never thought watching bananas dance could be so enjoyable...

They are Spanish, coÑe


Banana Fighters forever

Salutes froma Bananas from HardGame2

[VonSharma]

Civ: Khazakstan
Capital: Astana
Leader: Borat

UU - Jew Claw

[LzPrst]

vonsharma, you cant just make stuff up

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by VonSharma
Civ: Khazakstan
Capital: Astana
Leader: Borat

UU - Jew Claw

I can't wait for the movie to come out.

[LzPrst]

so the portugese should have a spanish UU?

i hate that idea. a civs best fighters are mercenaries from another civ!? WTF!? in civ3 the carthagians had numidian mercenaries. ON FOOT! read a history book next time! give them elephants, or sacred bands of hoplites.

same with the dutch. swiss mercenaries? if you're telling me that the dutch people not once, throughout history had a single military "unit" that was noteworthy, then I'm not sure if they qualify as an empire and thus as a civ in civ.

[MikeH]

I'd love to play as the Barbarians. They have a really cool black flag.

[Nikolai]

You can play as the barbs. You get Sid as their leader.

[potoroo]

Originally posted by LzPrst
so the portugese should have a spanish UU?

i hate that idea. a civs best fighters are mercenaries from another civ!? WTF!? in civ3 the carthagians had numidian mercenaries. ON FOOT! read a history book next time! give them elephants, or sacred bands of hoplites.

The Carthaginian army was one of the most diverse and complex in recorded military history. Apart from its officer corps, the entire army consisted of mercenaries drawn from all over the ancient world. It consisted of Iberians, Libyans, Numidians, Campanians, Greeks, and Gauls (Celts). However, the Numidians primarily provided javelin armed light cavalry (arguably the finest of its kind in the ancient world). The heavy infantry spearman of Civ3 - the backbone of the army and a match for the Roman legionaries in the Punic Wars - was in fact Libyan, not Numidian.

The use of elephants by the Carthaginians has been grossly overblown in the popular mind. They were few in number and generally not worth the trouble. Hannibal lost most of his elephants in the Alps and the remainder were rarely used in combat, especially once the Romans learnt how to deal with them. War elephants proved useful against Iberian tribal forces but they were rarely efective against disciplined troops.

The Carthaginian Sacred Legion, used in the Sicilian Wars, was extinct by the time of the Punic wars and for most of Carthage's history Carthaginians only officered the army.

same with the dutch. swiss mercenaries? if you're telling me that the dutch people not once, throughout history had a single military "unit" that was noteworthy, then I'm not sure if they qualify as an empire and thus as a civ in civ.

The Republic of the Seven United Netherlands (1581 to 1795), aka the United Provinces, was the precursor to the modern Kingdom of the Netherlands, and coincided with the Dutch Golden Age and the creation of the Dutch Empire. It became a world power of the time more through trade than force of arms, so it's no surprise there is no specifically Dutch unique unit. To my mind that makes the Dutch satisfyingly suitable for Civ, since one of the whole points of Civ is that military force is not the only way to win.

[LordShiva]

Interesting

[Alexander I]

Yes, both the Dutch and Carthaginians utilized mercenaries for a large part of their history, but the nature of Civilization games is such that Civs are self-contained. What if (hypothetically, not realistically) there was a Swiss or Numidian civ in the game? There would be an inconsistency.

So, summing up all that banter, I think it's unreasonable to have a Civ's Unique Unit be a mercenary from another civ. Since a Unique Unit is unique by definition, I don't see a problem with it being a rare elite. If the mercenaries are a must, provide mercenary function for civs to recruit mercenearies from other Civs, as well as aborigines, barbarians, goody huts, sedentary tribes, etc.

[potoroo]

Originally posted by Alexander01
Yes, both the Dutch and Carthaginians utilized mercenaries for a large part of their history, but the nature of Civilization games is such that Civs are self-contained. What if (hypothetically, not realistically) there was a Swiss or Numidian civ in the game? There would be an inconsistency.

So, summing up all that banter, I think it's unreasonable to have a Civ's Unique Unit be a mercenary from another civ. Since a Unique Unit is unique by definition, I don't see a problem with it being a rare elite. If the mercenaries are a must, provide mercenary function for civs to recruit mercenearies from other Civs, as well as aborigines, barbarians, goody huts, sedentary tribes, etc.

The flaw in your argument is the assumption that a civ must have had a "unique unit" in history to qualify as a civ in this game. Whilst use of mercenaries was widespread in the Middle Ages through to the rise of the European nation states, and the Dutch themselves also raised perfectly ordinary troops of the day during the rebellion against the Spanish, I can in no way agree that the fact they lacked the foresight to create a uniquely Dutch corps of Mutant Ninja Clog Throwers should disqualify them.

Ditto for the Carthaginians. It's a fact they built an empire with an army that consisted almost entirely of mercenaries. That makes them interesting, and if you're trying to coerce historical civs into some sort of Civ4 meets history straightjacket they fit better than, say, the Mesoamerican ones. The game is full of compromises. So be it.

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Nikolai
You can play as the barbs. You get Sid as their leader.

Is that a joke? If not how?