The Devel's Workshop I - CS Slingshot

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Velociryx
WOW! Holy smokes Arrian...send me that save, if you've still got the game start.....I don't think I've ever played in such a rich starting area! That would rock!

And hiyas, Fed! Glad you liked it!

As to the gold mine, I never did road the gold...no need to, cos it was connected to the capitol by the river.

-=Vel=-

I will post it when I have a chance tonight (or, at worst, tomorrow). I have the 4000bc quicksave, since I've not started any new games. It's actually even better than I've desribed, once you take into account other resources that are reachable fairly early

It's Prince, continents, standard across the board, as per the usual for me.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

1230
- Code of Laws complete.
- Animal Husbandry research started (due to sheep by Antium).
- Confucianism is founded in Antium (oh well, Rome would have been nicer). Free Missionary is sent towards American cities. State religion adopted.
- Bureaucracy is selected.
- Rome worker finishes chop of forest by Rome.

But you didn't finish the Oracle until 1180, at which point you took Civil Service as your free tech... so Bureacracy couldn't have been available until then. Did you start researching CS in 1230bc (if so, why?)... or are you talking about a different civic switch (perhaps to Caste System?).

-Arrian

[Ethelwind101]

Oops,

you're absolutely right Arrian. . Thanks for catching it, i'll go back and correct it.

Of course I didn't get Bureacracy until 1180, when the Oracle came. Sorry for that, my paper notes at 3am got slightly muddled toward the end. *g*

[Arrian]

I know exactly what you mean!

-Arrian

[Fosse]

Because you do not know the answer to this question, every turn you delay its completion is a turn you may get beaten to it. Further, it's a turn that you're not getting the 50% benefit from Bureaucracy, and the quicker that comes into play, the quicker you reap those powerful benefits. IMO, it's worth nearly anything (pop, chop, whatever) to get that Oracle completed as close to snagging CoL as possible, without happening before, of course.

I thought as much. The wonder race has always been the part that ruins this approach for me (Farseer never gives me troubles, but those prereqs are so much cheaper and earlier), not because I couldn't have build the Oracle but because I've been working low produciton tiles in the city so it can idle while I reserach Code of Laws. What I wanted to be sure about in asking was that the goal is to SPEED Code of Laws as much as possible.

Now, does anybody know about the specific game mechanics of researching COL and building the Oracle on the SAME turn? Will you get to pick Civil Service? I had the option to complete both on the same turn with a chop, but decided against it because I didn't know if I could pick the right tech afterwards.

[Velociryx]

Yep, you sure will. I've only managed to time it that closely twice, but in both instances, I got CoL, then the oracle completed, and then I got to pick the free tech.

-=Vel=-

[couerdelion]

It ought to be that CoL is there first since city builds affect tech investment. You also see the new tech options before you get the city build pop-up.

But that's just a wild guess which has since been confirmed above

[Arrian]

I've timed it exactly many times. It works fine. The first thing that happens is you discover CoL and get to pick your next tech to research (this does NOT have to be CS), then you get graphic for founding Confucism and the question of whether you'd like to convert, and THEN you get the oracle graphic with free tech choice popup.

-Arrian

[couerdelion]

But here you need to be patient I think

Originally posted by Arrian
I've timed it exactly many times. It works fine. The first thing that happens is you discover CoL and get to pick your next tech to research (this does NOT have to be CS), then you get graphic for founding Confucism and the question of whether you'd like to convert, and THEN you get the oracle graphic with free tech choice popup.

-Arrian

If you decide to change religion, you will probably not be allowed to change civics because, by that stage in your turn, you will already be in Anarchy.

Judging from Vel's write-up, I think he has already tested this.

[DeepO]

I haven't read much here yet, as I'd like to try it out too... I haven't played Marathon yet.

One thing though (which might have been mentioned): You don't need to time the Oracle to 1 turn after CoL, you've got to time it to the same turn as CoL.

In the turn, discovery of tech will come before you get the free tech from the Oracle. Thus, you can do both in the same turn...

DeepO

[El Conquistador]

Originally posted by Velociryx


Also observe that it will take only 25 turns to research Agriculture. Now, normally, I'm all about getting Bronzworking ASAP, but in this particular case, it's not the best play, and here's why: 22 turns to grow, under optimal growth conditions. 30 turns to make a worker (thus, delaying size two by a total of 8 turns from what it otherwise would be, BUT....five turns before the worker completes, we'll have Agriculture, and before that even, we'll get a border expansion that will bring the corn field into our workable zone. Farming it will add +3 food per turn, which will cut the time to grow to size two IN HALF. This will more than make up for those eight turns "lost" by going worker first, rather than letting the city grow. Also note that by going with Agriculture first, we'll have everything we need to get this city on a paying basis....a farm and a mine. We won't need more than that for quite some time!

Could you please explain how the growing/not growing system works exactly? (Noob question alert) Up 'n til now I just clicked the 'build a granary' button once in a while and assumed this would increase growth, which it did. But how it works exactly I don't know. (Storage?)

Another thing; when about to grow, could you not stop the city building a worker and make it produce something else for one turn, allowing it to pop? (probably another not so smart question)

[Velociryx]

Granaries do speed growth, yep. They do so by storing half of the food needed to grow to the NEXT size Observe the following, in your next game:

In a city without a granary, when it grows from one size to the next, the "food bar" is completely emptied, and must start from "the beginning"

WITH a granary, after growth, you'll note that the "food bar" is still half full, so you have a shorter distance to travel in order to grow again.

And you're absolutely correct. If you want to grow, and you're close to the line, stop building a worker/settler for long enough to let it grow. If you want to avoid growing, but you are happy with the tiles you are working, starting on a settler/worker will "freeze" growth in that city.

-=Vel=-

[Arrian]

Yep. I like vertical growth to the health/happiness gap, then lots of settlers. I may punch out a settler early on when my city isn't up to the cap(s), but mostly I try to get it up to max size first.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

As promised, Vel...

[Arrian]

And...

The most recent save (the Roman assault)...