*Least* Useful Civic?

[Blake]

Vassalage is more useful for Organized civs, and comes on a keystone tech.
Theocracy is really the poorer alternative, but it comes on a completely different tech branch and can be got earlier in the game because Theology is cheaper and can be lightbulbed with a Great Prophet or Great Artist. Also the other religious civics are arguably less powerful than the other legal civics, for sure they have greater tradeofs. Org.Rel has a high cost, pacifism has a HUGE cost in some cases, Free.Rel doesn't let you run a state religion.

Theocracy is definitely balanced right in comparison with the other religious civics, especially for spiritual. (if you're building units, you aren't benefiting from org.rel, if you're amassing an army, pacifism will kill you, free.rel is just rather weak for a civ without atleast 3 well spread religions)

[Martinus]

I think the common misconception about some civics is that they are being compared to other civics at the end game - at which point many earlier civics seem inferior. However, if both the late and early civics were available at the early game, I would say many earlier civics are superior to the late ones.

Hereditary Rule I think this is a very useful civic for large, military empires, and also one you will be using for a long time if you do not build Pyramids. For a peaceful builder sure, Representation is better, but that's very gamestyle specific.

Nationhood I think this is one of the best civics in the right circumstances, that is needing to mobilize for a war fast. Sure, both Bureaucracy and Free Speech are "better" in the sense that I won't be running Nationhood when at peace and having either of the other two. But this civic essentially represents switching your economy to war economy - it is supposed to inferior for peaceful development.

Caste System Another useful civic, especially when one aims at Cultural Victory and wants to produce great artists (who are the most "elusive" of all specialists, in that you normally do not have many buildings that allow to set them in cities).

Environmentalism This is indeed a civic I use the least, because all my strategies rely on the use of either Free Market, Mercantilism or State Property. Still I wouldn't call it useless.

Theocracy Very much disagree about its uselessness. The 2xp in itself is not much maybe, but combined with barracks and Vassalage, it gives your newly created unit a tremendous edge, especially when you also have an Aggressive trait (this essentially translates into 3 promotions off the bat). Also, if you have many units, this is a cheaper alternative to both Organized Religion (which is very costly) and Pacifism (which will cost you a lot of money when you have a large army).

[Martinus]

Re: Re: Re: *Least* Useful Civic?

Originally posted by MattPilot


You ever tried nationhood? Cause if ya did, ya would know that it only lets you draft 3 units civ wide, and not per city.

Not very good IMO. Of course, if you got a nice low-pop, high food city, it can be used to create free units.

The number of drafted units depends on the map size. It is 7 on huge maps iirc.

[Adagio]

Hereditary Rule seems only usefull in the early ages, later on I don't have many problems with happiness (and I never use the culture slider to gain happiness). The same goes for health, in the later ages I don't have such problems, which makes Environmentalism kinda useless

But the most useless civic so far is slavery, the few times I used it, it didn't help me at all. IMHO slavery should maybe add a food to the city square (maybe one more with a later tech), and also add 2 gold for plantage squares... or something like that

[Martinus]

Totally disagree about Slavery. I find it extremely useful in early game, especially in Multiplayer, when you need those extra shield to be able to finish some critical wonder (such as Pyramids or Stonehenge) before the others do.

It can also become important in late game, if you shoot for communism and go the production-heavy State Property + Kremlin strategy.

[player1]

Slavery is super after 1.52 patch.
Even if you don't pop rush at all (No upkeep).
Can save a lots of money sometimes.

[Adagio]

Doesn't it have low upkeep? I haven't tried it with the a.52 patch, that might explain why I don't like it... what changes has there been made?

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Heh I am running Caste System all the time, but I am going for culture wins mostly :-)

Caste is great with representation and Mercantilism & Representation, if you have enough special people you can tug along in science while having the slider to 100% culture

I didn't use Police State so far at all so that would be my pick for useless, but indeed I can see that it can be useful in certain situations, but as it stands I just don't play that way at the moment.

[Arrian]

I'd say either Serfdom or Police State (I've never used either).

Nationhood has saved me some pain a couple of times (when I was playing a SPI civ), so it gets a pass, even though its usefulness is very limited.

-Arrian

[Beleg Strongbow]

I'm new around here but I've been playing Civ since vanilla Civ2. Police state seems to be getting a hard time, but I have found good uses for it. If you build the Pyramids and are Organized, that extra military production can kick in pretty early and works great for very aggressive strats (like Praetorian offensives)

I would pick Mercantilism as my least favorite. Although the extra specialist per city may seem tempting (especially with Representation), its oppertunity cost is too high: the +1 trade route per city of Free Market or the 0 distance maintance for State Property, plus the foreign trade routes of both civics, will pretty much always outweigh the benifits of Mercantilism.

[Arrian]

If you build the Pyramids and are Organized, that extra military production can kick in pretty early and works great for very aggressive strats (like Praetorian offensives)

Well yeah, there's a thought. In that specific circumstance, I could see it being useful (coupled, perhaps, with Theocracy so you are pumping out 6XP units).

I would pick Mercantilism as my least favorite. Although the extra specialist per city may seem tempting (especially with Representation), its oppertunity cost is too high: the +1 trade route per city of Free Market or the 0 distance maintance for State Property, plus the foreign trade routes of both civics, will pretty much always outweigh the benifits of Mercantilism.

Mercantalism is another "in certain situations" case. Say you're isolated (started on your own island continent). You meet the rest of the world once Optics comes around. You differ from their religion. Ergo they hate you. No open borders = no trade routes. Let's also say that you built the Colossus and thus have added incentive to delay Astronomy a bit. Let's say you have the Pyramids or you have researched constitution (for Representation). Let's also say you're Philosophical. Now the case for Mercantalism is strong... until you get Liberalism (free religion), Economics (free trade) and Astronomy. And, depending on your tech path, that can be a while after you get to Banking.

-Arrian

[Blake]

Merchantalism can be had relatively early in the game, a beeline to banking makes compelling sense in many situations, especially bank + holy shrine.

It's definitely an excellent deal for Philo civs and those running Rep and/or Pacifism.

It's weaker primarly because it comes earlier.

The only case I'd give it a resounding thumbs-down is when I have the great lighthouse.

[Arrian]

I forgot Pacifism (or rather, I assumed it, since I nearly always run it until Liberalism).

-Arrian

[MasterDave]

Although I will often pursue culture victories, I think my least favorite civic is Caste System. It seems like whatever time I want to assign specialists, I already have the buildings for them, since the majority of these buildings produce culture in themselves. Therefore, it seems like a waste to choose a civic just for one or two extra specialists I could not assign otherwise (if that). I suppose it comes down to play style, but I really like slavery (unhappy people? whip em and build em into the concrete of that shiny new building) and serfdom until its time for emancipation.

Although I rarely use Nationalism, Police State, State Property or Environmentalism, they all can be useful under certain circumstances.

[Jaguar]

Serfdom is pretty bad. I'd prefer building an extra worker or two to a turn of anarchy and the upkeep.