New civilization-Poland

[Solver]

MKW - please only post a thread one time, in one forum. Thanks.

Enigma - you're off to Mingapulco again. I'm awaiting your PM with explanations of your actions and promises to be good.

[Remulak]

OK, I am not Polish, but I think that Poland has every right to be a CIV as Germany, perhaps more. First Poland, then Poland-Lithuania was a major power long before Germany even existed as an entity. Remember that there was no Germany until the 19th century when Bismarck and Prussia basically conquered or coerced the other principalities, kingdoms and margravates.

Poland-Lithuania was never able to centralize power like its neighbors and that was its downfall.

[Nikolai]

Germany has a history as a civ and as a sovereign country long before Poland was on its hight, and Lithuania at that time was divided pagan lands. Do not confuse modern day Germany as the first Germany. In fact, Germany under Bismarch was the second German Empire(with Hitler trying to establish a third, bleh).

[Karol]

I am Polish and I'd like to advertise Poland as quite interesting candidate to be another Civ-ilization.

Polish digest history:

1. We started in 966 AD when one of Polish tribes converted to Christianity - mainly for making +4 to relationship with Germany and to make Romans happy with $ from newly converted Christian cities.

2. We're placed on the wide continents map between Germany and Russia. Mainly forest/grasslands and forest/plains plots here. Some impassable peaks (south) and access to the sea (north). The only ways to settle new cities were: west (German cultural influence) and east (creating influence to the Russians - some rubbish cities flipped).

3. Quite powerful in XV century - won some battles and extended territory to the west - unfortunately more than 50% of Russian nationality in frontier cities - so difficult to avoid cultural pressure by Catherine. Built Forbidden Palace in Lwow city (this one lost in IInd W. War - now in Ukraine).

4. Interesting scenario happened in XIX century - Poland dissapeared from the map - conquered by Germany+Austro/Hungary+Russia. Not to simulate in Civ4 because Polish nationality remained in cities with over 50% causing in 1918 to appear again - it would be nice to have possibility in Civ4 to make Civ2-like domestic war in THREE countries and split several cities from all of them to re-create new country - Poland. We are a very good example that nationality will not assimilate even if there is no mother country.

5. Several Great People are Polish - John Paul II (great prophet), Lech Walesa (great umm...?), Copernicus, Marie Curie (great scientists), Chopin (great artist).

6. In our history there is very interesting period of fighting against Barbarians spawned in great numbers in the fog of war of our eastern frontier - the unexplored plains between Mongolian and Polish borders. This was the only unsettled area in 1500s Europe causing many Barbarian hordes to spawn and many Barbarian cities to appear - whose were conquered by Russia which apparently increased its economy this time and could afford to take some land and cities. This time Poland had too many small cities and our science bar was at 40% unfortunately.

7. Another interesting scenario hapened in 1939. Germany invaded Poland. Poland had defense pact with England and France. Both Louis and Vicky decided not to move troops to Germany and avoid loses. This was a big fault because soon they needed to switch to war civics and produce more military. Louis was too slow and Panzers kicked his ass. In this scenario Polish cities were taken first by Germans and then by Russians. They lost population points during subsequent conquests causing whole country to decrease plenty of civ-points. After the war Germany were forced to give to Poland some cities (Breslau, Stettin, Danzig) causing borders change and from the other side Poland was forced to give to Russia some cities (Lwow with Forbidden Palace!) - during this exchange happened one of the biggest population movement in the history of Europe. Millions of people went to Germany, millions of Poles from the East took their place in given cities (and renamed them to Wroclaw, Szczecin, Gdansk), the cities Poland gave to Russia were settled by Russians. In fact Poland MOVED 500 km to the west with population (100% Polish nationality in former 90% German cities!).

8. There was a Minority in Poland called Jewish. They made unhappy faces in Polish cities. But there were no Jewish unhappy faces but Polish ones. There was interesting rule here - "we don't like them enough" and Polish faces became red. During 2nd WW Germans created Worker units by choosing Jewish polulation from cities to create an unit (civ3) and then disbanded them to produce $. This was an exploit. After all no more Jewish minority remain in Poland. Sad but true.

There might be very interesting mod based on our history!

Rgds
Karol/Poland

[Nikolai]

[TheHateMale]

[SIZE=1]
4. Interesting scenario happened in XIX century - Poland dissapeared from the map - conquered by Germany+Austro/Hungary+Russia. Not to simulate in Civ4 because Polish nationality remained in cities with over 50% causing in 1918 to appear again - it would be nice to have possibility in Civ4 to make Civ2-like domestic war in THREE countries and split several cities from all of them to re-create new country - Poland. We are a very good example that nationality will not assimilate even if there is no mother country.

Sounds more like their fault for not stationing enough units there, or dropping a Great Artist in.

That was an awesome read!

[Provost Harrison]

Wow, ottok has returned. In Polish form

[Trifna]

Karol, being of the Apolyton forum, many members might know some Polish history exactly because this thread is revived once in a while.

So, which civ of Civ4 should have been erased to put the Pole? Otherwise, mods (go Canadians, go!).

[Odin]

Originally posted by Karol
6. In our history there is very interesting period of fighting against Barbarians spawned in great numbers in the fog of war of our eastern frontier - the unexplored plains between Mongolian and Polish borders.

Russia-bashing:

[jarekexe]

Excellent thread

Perhaps the fact thatm Im from Poland as well had something to do with it, but who cares...


PS. Karol masz gg? 5387742 je¶li chcesz od czasu do czasu pogadaæ z civ-maniakiem

[Tau]

Online patriotism is the most boring variety.
Still, Poland might be a good addition in a medieval/renaissance mod.

[gdgrimm]

Great post, Karol!

[johnmcd]

Stick in the Hansiatic League instead of Poland or Germany or Vikings.

[Zoid]

What´s the obsession with wanting to include every nation on earth in the game? There´s only so many diffent traits and stuff you can program in before it gets unmanageable. Besides, Sweden should be included before Poland anyway...

Great post Karol!

[muflonex]

Hie hie, yeah first Civ to complete "Road to Moscow" scenario, whereas several badasses failed. Made them jealous to hear that Russians chose "driving out of Poles from Kremlin" annuary as their national Independence Day ;D

Made me sad to hear that Church eventually abandoned the idea of building the Temple of God's Providence in form of 300 metre-high crystal Archangel - nice idea of World Wonder.

As the National Wonder I'd propose the Palace of Science and Culture (to remind Louis and Isabell, what they'd actually miss, never being "the People's Republic of...").

GP, mainly Great Prophets: St. Stanislaus, St. Adalbert, St. Jadwiga (the patron of Europe), yeah well... John Paul II (never liked him anyway). Most of our Artists and Scientists eventually became the UU Immigrant, same for libraries and museums (eventually robbed by less artistically sophisticated neighbours. Sth like the scene in the Ermitage: "Mommy, mommy, why all of this paintings have 'Gift from the Polish Nation' written on their backs?").
Oh, and couple of really neat Great Engineers.

Traits? Spiritual, Aggresive maybe. Or, naaa, let's mod it- Unforgiving and Disorganized.

As the UU I'd propose Mr. Plumber.

But seriously, Poles had their national language long before Germans and Russians did, so why not give them chance? ;]