Major worker improvement idea for lazy micro managers!

[MightyTiny]

Re: Re: Re: Major worker improvement idea for lazy micro managers!

Originally posted by Willem
...However, I don't think you should be allowed improvements you don't already have the tech for.

Just making sure you understood what I ment - of course you wouldn't be allowed to actually build improvements that you don't have the tech for yet, but I think you should be allowed to include such improvements in the build plan, so that your workers would implement them whenever the tech became available.

I think this is just a matter of convenience - if you're allowed to include improvements that you don't have the tech for yet in the city improvement plans, then it would be enough to do a city plan only once for each city during a game. If you were limited, in the pre-planning, only to improvements you currently have the tech for, then you'd have to go back and edit the build plan for every one of your cities every time a new improvement-enabling tech is discovered.

Especially on big maps, with a dozen or more cities, not being able to pre-plan improvement that aren't available yet would mean A LOT of extra work, compared to this idea being implemented with future tech improvements being available for the plans throughout the game.

Even without the future tech-improvements being available in the planning, I think this idea would still be a great improvement, but I can't see a downside to allowing future tech improvements being allowed in the plans all along. Again, not to be implemented before the tech becomes available of course!

[VetLegion]

The reason they probably won't implement anything along the lines of this "planning improvements" idea is that it is too much like the public works system introduced by Civilization: Call To Power. Basically it is exactly that, because if you already automate them, why have them as units at all?

While most CtP players have found the PW system OK, Firaxis knows about the system and has commented (back while doing Civ3? I can't remember) that they consider managing workers an integral part of the Civ expirience and won't be implementing a public works system in their games. And so they haven't.

Think about it - if they did, what would the builder types do in the game anyway, besides clicking end of turn?

[Adagio]

Originally posted by VetLegion
The reason they probably won't implement anything along the lines of this "planning improvements" idea is that it is too much like the public works system introduced by Civilization: Call To Power. Basically it is exactly that, because if you already automate them, why have them as units at all?

Ehmmm... no it's not!!! The PW system is kinda the same as the worker system, except with more annoyances. The mentioned ideas has not much in common with the PW system (at least not more as the worker system)
Now if the PW system was anything like the ideas mentioned here, I wouldn't have hated the PW system

[VetLegion]

It's PW, there's no significant difference. I must say I'm with Firaxis when they decide to be conservative with most things in Civ desgn, for example, keep tiles is a good call

PW is a bit harder to decide about... I don't know whether it would take all that much from game expirience. Firaxis probably think that keeping your workers from harms way adds to the choices available, and Civ is about choices.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by VetLegion
It's PW, there's no significant difference. I must say I'm with Firaxis when they decide to be conservative with most things in Civ desgn, for example, keep tiles is a good call

It only has one thing from PW, the fact that you can 'draw' on the map where to build what, but it still has all the strengths of the workers, while it has none of the drawbacks of PW

[Jabutron]

I think it could be implemented without being too PW-y. By setting what type of improvement to be built ($, prod, or food) in what squares it lessens micro-mgmt. But workers would still need to be controlled by the player, maybe to connect new cities as they're built, or to deal with pillages/fallout/new resources. The city defaults would be built when the worker's on auto and you have nothing for them to do. It's like regular job duties and special projects.

[MightyTiny]

Originally posted by VetLegion
The reason they probably won't implement anything along the lines of this "planning improvements" idea is that it is too much like the public works system introduced by Civilization: Call To Power. Basically it is exactly that, because if you already automate them, why have them as units at all?

While most CtP players have found the PW system OK, Firaxis knows about the system and has commented (back while doing Civ3? I can't remember) that they consider managing workers an integral part of the Civ expirience and won't be implementing a public works system in their games. And so they haven't.

Think about it - if they did, what would the builder types do in the game anyway, besides clicking end of turn?

I never played CtP, so I can't really comment on how similar or dissimilar to my idea the system in that game is - however, my idea certainly wouldn't make workers redundant! If you think that, then you must have misunderstood what I was proposing.

Nor would it take anything away from the peaceful builder-types - first of all, in the "improvement-preplanning" idea, you'd STILL micromanage everything you want to build, the only difference would be that you could chose to do all your micromanaging for the squares of a given city at one time, when you found the city, instead of having to stop to direct individual workers just about every single turn, or automate your workers and yield control over build decisions to an AI.

And you wouldn't have to care about WHICH worker builds which improvement and when; that'd be automated; and at leat for me that would be a good thing.

Finally, if someone does derive some sort of pleasure out of directing every individual worker separately (which I personally can't understand), then they would still be free to do so: adding an OPTION to create a city square development plans for individual cities for automated workers to follow wouldn't mean that you'd HAVE to use those plans, or automate your workers. ALL the current worker functionality (from no automation at all, to full automation without any city plans) would still be there. So all the masochists could still keep on directing each individual worker just as you tend to have to do today.

To make it absolutely clear - I'm not proposing a radical shift in how workers work, I'm proposing an additional OPTION as to how to direct your workers, one that would satisfy the perfectionist's need to micromanage, and make their own improvement choises, without having to spend a significant amount of time each turn telling individual workers where to build that farm or cottage. This is essentially an improvement idea for worker automation, NOT a suggestion that you should HAVE to automate your workers, or give away any worker functionality that is currently there in Civ 4.

[Willem]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Major worker improvement idea for lazy micro managers!

Originally posted by MightyTiny


Just making sure you understood what I ment - of course you wouldn't be allowed to actually build improvements that you don't have the tech for yet, but I think you should be allowed to include such improvements in the build plan, so that your workers would implement them whenever the tech became available.

Yes I understand what you meant, but I still don't think you should be allowed to. Just like I can't place a unit I need a tech for in my build queue even though the picture is available, though greyed out. As for having to come back and revise, that's not necessarily a bad thing. It gives you an opportunity to refine any choices you make, and think twice about your decisions.

[Silver14]

All we want is a way to plan what automated workers build so we don't have to manage them from turn to turn in the game but still get the benefit of having micromanaged the improvements. Building the right improvements where becomes more important at the higher difficulty and leaving it all up to the automated workers is a bad idea.

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by MightyTiny
Finally, if someone does derive some sort of pleasure out of directing every individual worker separately (which I personally can't understand),

It's the Ego Boost of being Leeter than the PC, and the reassurance that comes from knowing you can get an extra 1 bread or 2 hammers out of your terrain without deforesting a city to unhealth or farming your own towns.

[KingG]

MightyTiny, what a simple and profoundly beautiful suggestion.

Basically, we know what the land will have on it from the beginning of the city so why make it a relentless, unrewarding struggle to implement ?!

And of course MMers like Enigma_Nova would not miss out as they could just change the overlay or, more likely, salivate at the smell of fresh bread as they - Click - move worker - Click - end turn - Click - build farm.

Until I read this post micromanaging workers move-by-move was just annoying. Now I will forever be cursing Firaxis as I shift-click my workers only to see the mining icon not appear in the list of opitons to add to the queue.

Someone PLEASE tell me I am a fool and there is a simple one-step way to queue, say, move to there + build mine + move to there + build farm.



And I suggest VetLegion let Firaxis speak for themselves.

[MightyTiny]

Thanks KingG for the ego boost!

Though Silver14 actually indipendently thought of this as well, just hadn't spotted his post in another thread before posting this one.

But that only goes to show that it's an idea worth considering, it's been invented at least twise!

I'm really hoping to see something like this in the expansion.

[KingG]

OK

Don't know what I was doing wrong before (maybe not starting with a fresh worker queue) but my gripe about unavailable options is unfounded.

So I'm a fool.

Still would like to see a worker overlay though.

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by KingG
Someone PLEASE tell me I am a fool and there is a simple one-step way to queue, say, move to there + build mine + move to there + build farm.

Well, you're either a fool for not knowing, or a DAMN fool for thinking Firaxis would implement something like this before the expansion comes out.
Take your pick.

[KingG]

I asked for that Enigma_Nova

The worker queue doesn't work consistently for me and I want to know if I am using it incorrectly ... as per my post at http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...40#post4230555

Any help would be appreciated.