How to take the workers out of Civ4

[Monsto]

Originally posted by Diadem

A basic thing about workers in Civ 4 is that there is a LOT more that workers are doing than in previous Civ games. Now, we not only have roads/railroads and things like mines/farms, but you need to "work" the natural resources to get access to them.

A lot more? No, there's a lot less. Alas.

They can't terraform anymore. That's a major source of work gone, just like that. And they can't clean pollution anymore, since it doesn't exist anymore. More work gone for your workers.

By the end of the game your workers will be mostly useless, having improved everything there is to improve. That's such a shame.

remove terraforming and pollution...
add build plantation, cottage, windmill, waterwheel, workshop. . .

ALL THIS just to get the bonuses that road/railroad would have given you in previous games. put a workshop in forest to get the extra shields, or the cottage to get the extra $. in civ3 you were spamming roads to get this. now not only does it take more than just 2 road building turns by 1 worker (or engineer) to get that particular bonus, but you can't get it unless you have the right advances.

factor in all the various natural resources that need to be massaged (wheat, cows, silver, sugar) and you see that not only are they busier, but they're more critical. in civ3 having 6-7 luxuries meant you were GOING to win. now having 6-7 is a must.

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Monsto


A lot more? No, there's a lot less. Alas.

They can't terraform anymore. That's a major source of work gone, just like that. And they can't clean pollution anymore, since it doesn't exist anymore. More work gone for your workers.

By the end of the game your workers will be mostly useless, having improved everything there is to improve. That's such a shame.

remove terraforming and pollution...
add build plantation, cottage, windmill, waterwheel, workshop. . .

ALL THIS just to get the bonuses that road/railroad would have given you in previous games. put a workshop in forest to get the extra shields, or the cottage to get the extra $. in civ3 you were spamming roads to get this. now not only does it take more than just 2 road building turns by 1 worker (or engineer) to get that particular bonus, but you can't get it unless you have the right advances.

factor in all the various natural resources that need to be massaged (wheat, cows, silver, sugar) and you see that not only are they busier, but they're more critical. in civ3 having 6-7 luxuries meant you were GOING to win. now having 6-7 is a must. [/QUOTE]

All these new things you build are relatively early in the game. Halfway through any game you have no new things to build, except for the rare oil and uranium resources (most of the aluminum resources will already be mined when it appears). So you need more workers early on, but hardly any later.

-Drachasor

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Dis


not as fun as the Sims2.

I'll put you down for 3 copies of my game.

[LDiCesare]

I thought they did this automatically? Seems to me that once they have nothing left to build, they return to a city and sleep until another build option comes. This is a nice approach, though I am not a big fan of the worker system overall.

If you automate them I suppose. I don't do that as I would not control what they would do then. Choosing between cottages/farms or windmills/mines is too important for me to let the ai do it randomly.

[Sexus R Cerinus]

Everyone has there own style of how workers improve city tiles. The key is how to let the worker know this without having to be told.

The Automate workers functionality is OK, but does not go far enough. Setting to 'Food' for a grassland city is OK, byt not for others.

An options screen listing all the tile types with the corresponding worker action, and a priority. This then could be linked to a additional 'custom' button on the 'Automate' screen.

This would go a lot closer to emmulate the desired worker action/outcome for individual players.

[KingG]

There already IS an automated workers function. But it doesn't get the results.

A worker overlay would be the perfect solution that allows us to 'micromanage' the tile improvements but without the move-by-move tedium many of us dislike.

That way we get the enjoyment of planning and implementing our civilization food/production/commerce while later in the game it frees us to make the larger strategic decisions.

Although, of course, we will be constantly referring to our city terrain throughout the game it disrupts the 'flow' to worry about workers as a hostile army breaches our defenses (or for that matter we settle new and distant lands).

The two levels of strategy simply do not mix at the same time imho.

[Aro]

Originally posted by KingG

A worker overlay would be the perfect solution that allows us to 'micromanage' the tile improvements but without the move-by-move tedium many of us dislike.

...And this can be made optional. So, why not?

[Enigma_Nova]

Queueing workers to do multiple improvements on different tiles would solve most people's problems.
If they don't have the tech needed for one step in the line, they'd ignore it and try it later after they've completed the step after that.

[KingG]

Holding the shift allows you to add both moves and builds on multiple squares. And yes that does help immensely.

But that isn't the issue here.

A worker overlay that allowed us to select and prioritize improvements would give the pleasure of micromanagement that the current automated workers option does not, at vastly improved efficiency.

Patrol points, whereby a unit would automatically move along a route keeping an eye out for the enemy, would also allow us to micromanage units without move-by-move distraction from the real concerns of our civ.

When basic game functions are just so tedious they are ignored then a little automation should be included as an option. The abilities of units are not changed, just the ability to use them.

I see no benefit in forcing players to manually attend to repetitive, minute details that disrupt the game's greatest asset, its zen-like flow.

[Jabutron]

Originally posted by Diadem
Civ2's engineers were the best of course.

I just miss the advanced settlers that would give basic improvements when the city was founded. So much easier. Why can't my new city be pre-fab?

[Willem]

Originally posted by MasterDave
Yes, they can be automated, but then they do stupid stuff more often than not, like exterminate all of your trees or build a farm over your fully-developed town tile.

There's options you can select that prevents them from making any changes to existing improvements or cutting down Forests.

The one reason I do like workers is that they can be stolen from other players, which can be a critical advantage if it happens early enough in the game.

And that's the reason why they should be in the game. If you take out a bunch of your opponent's Workers, or have yours wiped out, that represents a major blow to the building of infrastructure. If you can't be improving your land, then you're not going to do very well. Even disrupting a Worker by coming near and forcing him into the nearest city becomes a strategic consideration. I don't know how many times the development of my early empire was slowed because my Workers were forced to run for cover by Barbarians.

[Willem]

Originally posted by b_ramsdell
I wish they would add back the abiliy to automate workers without destroying the previous improvement.

Look at your Game options, it's there. Frankly I don't really understand why you have to select that, it should be a given.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Dis
and increasing workers to a 2 move unit was a great idea.

And having them zoom from place to place instead of watching them trudge across the land.

[Willem]

Originally posted by LDiCesare

It's still annoying. I don't need tons of roads, and when I've spammed them, I still haveto pay the price of displaying the unit and being asked what to do when they stop. Putting them to sleep is painful because you have ot remember where you put them when you'll next need them (which cities are they in...)

I just stick mine in my capital, that makes it nice and easy to know where they are if I need them.

[Willem]

Originally posted by MasterDave
If you could set the workers not to cut trees along with the swtich that already exitst to prevent them from overwriting existing improvements, then I would probably automate them for all times except wars and the very early game when there are only two or three workers. That would be ideal.

You can. Patch 1.52 introduced an option that prevents Workers from cutting down trees.