You know... I think the AI also just gets units for free too:

[notyoueither]

Sir Ralph: Take your sarcasm elsewhere- I'm trying to figure out how the AI plays. It's called understanding the opponent so I can adjust the diff. level to do what I *expect* it to do.

I'm so sick of all the ****ers on this board who blindy defend how the game operates. Just shut up- I'm one of those who wants to understand how a game works so I can mess with the SDK and XML's and python scripts to get it to play better. Take your Civ IV toy and go play in the corner mumbling how nothing is true unless proven it's all good and the AI is smarter than your momma. LOL.

It's not your questions, or your desire to master the game. It's your tone. You come off as a little boy throwing a tantrum.

[yin26]

I, actually, would like to know precisely what bonuses the AIs get. Considering the manual doesn't tell me, I'm glad Dearmad is giving it a try.

[notyoueither]

As am I. As I said, it's the tone adopted not the idea.

[yin26]

O.K., Dearmad: We are interested in your findings so please avoid flamewars and other such things. Your role as lead investigator includes coming across as calm, cool and collected. Let naysayers fall by the side of the road if/when you produce the evidence.

[dearmad]

I did produce the evidence- the AI at all levels gets 10 prod. for free right off the bat on its first city.

I can't find anything in any XML that sets this. I think it's DLL related.

[kolpo]

Dearmad is right, something is going on in the first turn. If you don't believe me then do the following:

a) press custom game
b) add at least one other civilization to your team(by giving it the same team number)
c) finish your first turn
d) Hover over the AI city with your mouse and write down the production you see
e) Double click on it's name to see the city view and count the number of hammers.

You shall notice that the number of hammers from step d and e are DIFFERENT.

[Krill]

[q=Dearmad]I can't prove this (yet) but it seems like the AI just randomly gets units added to its cities every few turns at even the Noble level.[/q]

Bolded part by me.

DM, Getting 10 shields at the start of the game is not as game breaking as getting free shields to allocate to units every few turns. I agree, it would be better if we were informed of this, and the best case scenario would be that it is removed, or given to the human player as well.

[Krill]

Though I would like to see what your investigation turns up...

[dearmad]

I'm done investigating. I think that if FIRAXIS is interested in us modding the game and blah blah blah the point is: just TELL WTF is going on! I don't want to waste any more hours doing this kind of crap.

I simply want the parameters of how the game plays laid out openly- so that as I *continue* modding the game and working on improving it, I know WTH is going on without being blindsided.

Is this a hard concept for people to grasp?

[GeoModder]

Oh, and suddenly he wants it all on his plate.

Sorry for the rest of the gang here, couldn't let that one go.
I'm off now, truely.

[Dale]

Originally posted by dearmad
I'm done investigating. I think that if FIRAXIS is interested in us modding the game and blah blah blah the point is: just TELL WTF is going on! I don't want to waste any more hours doing this kind of crap.

I simply want the parameters of how the game plays laid out openly- so that as I *continue* modding the game and working on improving it, I know WTH is going on without being blindsided.

Is this a hard concept for people to grasp?

Obviously you didn't investigate hard enough, considering the answer is in front of you in a simple xml file.

Look in Civ4HandicapInfos.xml for the AI advantages at different difficulty levels.

Dale

[kolpo]

Originally posted by Dale


Obviously you didn't investigate hard enough, considering the answer is in front of you in a simple xml file.

Look in Civ4HandicapInfos.xml for the AI advantages at different difficulty levels.

Dale

Do you then know what iUnitCostPercent and iAIUnitCostPercent do? iUnitCostPercent is 50% while iAIUnitCostPercent is 100% at noble difficulty, yet does a team game reveal that both AI and human pay the same unit cost on noble difficulty. So what does iUnitCostPercent exactly do?

[dearmad]

Wow- the ignorance and attitude in here is pitiful. And from a "Civ4 scenario designer?"

Ok, smart guy, where exactly in that XML is the data that describes how many production hammers the AI gets in its initial city toward military units (or whatever). Obviously *you've* looked hard enough, right?

keep it up Geomodder, you look good. LOL. Like how infer "all" from a request for wanting the balance parameters exposed and transperent. Which means when I look through the XMLs I can see the variable to manipulate.

[Dale]

Actually, I was just talking in kind to you, since civil conversation isn't so receptive for you.

As for what defines what the AI starts with, let's look at HandicapInfos.xml:

At Noble:
- Human unit cost = 50%
- AI unit cost = 100%

So an AI pays twice as much for a unit as a human does.

Truth:
- We know the human and AI START on an even footing at Noble level.

In order for this to be accurate the AI needs to be able to pump out its first unit at the same time as the human. Under the settings in HandicapInfos.xml a unit taking 5 turns for a human should take 10 for the AI. For the above statement to be correct the AI needs to pump the first unit out at 5 turns like the human. Therefore, give it half it's first unit for free on founding the first city.

Thus, you see the result you've noticed in your game. The AI gets half its first unit for free when it founds its first city to match the human's first unit production, and to have everyone start on an even footing. After that, it's down to the rules.

Anyways, that's just a simple guess you could've easily come up with just by looking at HandicapInfos.xml and a bit of thought.

Dale

[Bhruic]

Originally posted by Dale
- We know the human and AI START on an even footing at Noble level.

How exactly is it 'even footing' if I can construct units for half the cost the AI can? Why am I 'advantaged' like that anyway? I mean, it's not until Deity level that the cost hits 100%. So I'm 'advantaged' all the way up to that point?

Sadly, Firaxis programmers seemed to have succumbed to the old "if I understand it, it must be obvious" fallacy (which I do in my programming as well). Unfortunately, for those outside of the programming loop, it's not. So many things that Firaxians have described as "self-explanatory" are anything but. Leaving many of us scratching our heads.

Admittedly, a politer discussion would be more productive.

Bh