Open Borders gripes!

[DrSpike]

Ralphie you were being a a bit of a meanie to start with.

He said it wasn't working right, which it wasn't in his game, and you said that was obviously false.

I have no interest in reading through to see who was rudest after that.

I think it's good to highlight any bugs that cause features not to work as intended, and would encourage people to post them.

[ben_sphynx]

When there is a game rule that something cant happen in a particular circumstance, and there is a counter example of that thing happening in that circumstance, then it means that the rule is broken.

A single counter example is all that is needed to demonstrate that there is a problem.

And calling someone a fanboy because they dont believe that such a counter example exists just because they havnt personally experienced it seems entirely reasonable to me; a fanboy has an unfounded belief that the game/documentation/civopedia is correct dispite someone attempting to present evidence to the contary.

While it is possible to respect someone that one does not know, such respect is something that can be quickly eroded or build upon once there is some comunication.

[Firecrak]

This is a bug that needs to be fixed, its annoying as hell to have the AI pop a mini city in the last square that i don't control yet, just because of the "open borders" bugs. They sail huge armadas around my coasts...and ignore the rules :/

[WarLord Fakir]

I've had a similar thing with open borders, but only during a SP team game. When i cancelled an open borders treay with the english, several english warriors remained in my territory and declared war next turn. They then declared war next turn, and still the warriors remained in my territory..
aren't they supposed to leave i) when you cancel an open borders treaty and ii) when they declare war? as i say this has only happened in a team game, never when i'm on my own.

[]LoL[Harm]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Do you even realize, that these 2 statements contradict each other?

I forgot a qualifier. I apologize. I respect people I don't know, unless that person outwardly expresses themselves in a way that is pretentious and disrespectful. To simplify, I respect those who also respect others. Since the circumstance under which one thing is true differs from the other, no contradiction exists.

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
To draw from one single (and as it is obvious, very buggy) sample sweeping conclusions for a broader entity (the Open Border feature, which works for others) is an inductive fallacy, if memory serves right, a "hasty generalization".

I'm glad you can see the error in your statement. Nowhere did you specify where his "obvious" falsehood resided. You just posted a sweeping conclusion, or better yet a “hasty generalization”. Or can you claim that this phrase: “to back up a claim which is obviously false” is neither a sweeping conclusion nor a hasty generalization of the original posting. From my perspective it meets the requirements of both.

[Jarkorsis]

I am able to enter foreign borders with a Galleon. I was out exploring and was allowedto go along the coast with no problem. I have no open borders agreement with this civ.

[Arrian]

I certainly hope that whatever bug is causing this gets fixed. I still haven't seen it - the game works as it should for me - but there is something funky going on here.

-Arrian

[Velociryx]

/me wipes the tears from his eyes and shakes his head.

Well....THAT was certainly an entertaining read.

1) Good catch on the strangeness with regards to open borders. Something I've not noticed before.

2) Whatever you'd like to call it...a bug, a broken feature, an *undocumented* feature....whatever....can we all agree that there's undeniably something going on here? And further, the "something" (I'll avoid pinning ANY term to it, so as to avoid the already simmering tempers on both sides).

3) If we CAN agree that there's something odd going on, perhaps then, at that point, everybody can retract the proverbial claws? Soren's already seen it, which means that Firaxis is on the case.

Mission accomplished, no?

One of the things that MAKES this board a pleasure to venture into is the fact that flare-ups like this one are relatively rare.

I guess my point is...since it's obvious that there's something going on, and since a Firaxan has chimed in, indicating his awareness of the issue, it seems, at this point that we do ourselves and this forum a disservice by continuing to fight.

$0.02

-=Vel=-

[Common Sensei]

Can we have this moved to the bugs forum? This forum is for strategy discussion, which usually makes it a refuge from drama and people coming in and making unproductive one-line, negativity posts. Threads like this are really attractive for that sort of thing. All fine and dandy for General and bug forums, I suppose, but this is not the place for that sort of thing.

[Velociryx]

[]LoL[Harm]

Originally posted by Velociryx
at this point that we do ourselves and this forum a disservice by continuing to fight.

Wholeheartedly agree, I apologize for continuing it.

[vee4473]

Cordelayne, good job with presenting the issue.

I have noticed that sometimes units will "wander off" after moving. Meaning that after the last movement point is used, the unit continues to drift off until eventually stopping. Usually with large stacks.

That is a bug. And perhaps that explains your situation.

As for your reception by some, I think they over reacted.

You starting out by saying "The Open Borders feature doesn't work right" is perfectly valid if you can prove it as vmxa1 says.

And with your save game, if galleons are indeed moving into your borders without war or open borders and galleons not having that feature, then you did indeed prove that open borders or a part of it doesn't work right.

I think Soren Johnson had the correct reaction. A thank you for bringing it up and let's get to the bottom of it to fix it attitude.

Initial skepticism towards you might have been warranted if you were a typical "this game sukz" poster. Which I don't think you are.

[Jarkorsis]

More information they may help.

The situation in my game is that I am the first and only civ at this point to have Galleons or any transcontinental boats period. I have colonized this other continent (not a good idea) and if I try to move any land units into Green's borders I get you do not have an open borders agreement pop up. If I use any of my Galleons to explore I do not get the pop up. So, I guess I do not know if this is a bug or if it is a feature. I may have gotten the pop up, if green had a transcontinental navy, but I do not know.

[Rommel2D]

I've seen the Galleon issue mentioned elsewhere, and while open borders are the obvious evidence of a problem, it doesn't seem like that would be the cause. Also, I've heard no other mention of programming related problems with open borders in the diplomacy screen (and I've been particularly watching my own games), other than some difficulty seeing the graphics well. These inaccuracies are probably why the issue flared up here.

Did this thread start out in this forum? I don't recall ever browsing 'Strategy' in the CIV forum. It was worth it just to see Sir Ralph called a fanboy, though. Now that's rich...