Open Borders gripes!

[mmm_ok]

Actually, most of you got it wrong.

Its neither the galleon nor the galley. Also missionaries can't cross.

There are only 3 units in this game that can. It's the submarine, the spy, and the caravel (sp?).

Umm... I'm sure I read in the Civilpedia that Explorers can cross without Open Borders.

AND

in one game I was playing, a French warrior was stuck in my territory without open borders by expanding culture. A few turns later he declared war on me and started pillaging right away. I was a bit annoyed.

[Cordelayne]

Sir Ralph, a minor fanboy, states that my claim is "obviously false." What a maroon. It's getting worse in my game. I'm playing on a small map, epic, as Elizabeth vs. Bismarck and Napoleon. Napoleon is in third place and has consistently respected my borders, although he often makes demands that I always refuse. Bismarck is in second place, and he has asked for open borders at least eight times, and I have always refused. He keeps asking. Not only does he have two galleons in my territory with military units aboard, but he has now started to send frigates into my territory.

Meanwhile, I cannot send a galleon or frigate into HIS territory without the "start war?" message.

Here's my first attempt at a screen shot, which if it works will prove what I'm saying. It shows a German frigate next to my city Coventry, inside my lines, although you can see we are not at war.

[MattPilot]

Originally posted by mmm_ok


Umm... I'm sure I read in the Civilpedia that Explorers can cross without Open Borders.

Funny - my civilopedia says nothing even remotely close to what it says under subs & caravels.

I guess you have a different version.




@Cordelayne

As for the screenshots - I assume you are saying the ship in the middle is german? You can't really see a flag on that unit, so that screenshot proves about as much as my underwear - that i farted a few times today.



Honestly, i've never experienced the problem, and i don't know why it is doing it in your games (supposedly).

Perhaps posting a savegame would be the best thing to do.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Cordelayne
Sir Ralph, a minor fanboy, states that my claim is "obviously false." What a maroon.

That would be sig material if you were worth to have a single thought wasted on you.

[vmxa1]

Cordelayne make that screenie 800 pixel jpeg so us old folks can see it.

Better to post the save as that is the only way to tell if OB is in place or not. Not saying you are lying, only that people do make mistakes at times.

[Stuie]

vmxa1 - click on the pic to get the large version.

Originally posted by Cordelayne
Here's my first attempt at a screen shot, which if it works will prove what I'm saying. It shows a German frigate next to my city Coventry, inside my lines, although you can see we are not at war.

Obviously photoshopped, since that's impossible.



j/k

[Cordelayne]

I just spent half an hour and can't figure out how to upload the darned save file that shows the Germans with a frigate in my territory near Coventry, even through we're not at war and have no open borders agreement.

There must be a file upload feature somewhere I'm missing. The one I'm using says that a valid file extension is ".Civ4SavedGame," but when I try to upload the save game, whether from the original directory, from a temp directory, from my XP desktop, etc. etc., Apolyton keeps saying it's the wrong file type.

I finallly renamed "Elizabeth AD-1904.Civ4SavedGame" to "example.sav" and it did upload. But then all the link options given appear to be for pictures. Here's a sample given by Apolyton.

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=14433_example.sav

You should be able to download the file from that link, then change the extension to Civ4SavedGame to run it.

I'd appreciate tips on the saved game file upload.

I'm over 50. I've been playing computer games for more than 20 years. I can program in several languages. I'm not a liar. It's really irritating that some jerks on this board think something is impossible just because they've never seen it.

--and boy was this a waste of time on a slow satellite Internet connection!

[MattPilot]

That ain't a savegame. It can't be - its no bigger than 1 byte. yes... I said 1 byte.

I think what you uploaded was a LINK to the savegame.



Upload the savegame from

C:\Documents and Settings\*NAME*\My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Saves\single

[mmm_ok]

I think this is getting a bit personal.

IMO there is a lot of confusion on this issue because a) documentation is a little fuzzy b) I've heard a few reports of suspected bugs around this issue

[Arrian]

I've never seen the AI be able to get into my borders w/o "open borders" except for caravels.

I know I have always been barred from moving MY galleys & galleons (and frigates, and etc) into their territory w/o the "declare war" popup.

That being said, the above is interesting... although I can't check it out b/c I'm at work right now.

-Arrian

[sophist]

Drop the save game file into a .zip and upload that.

[Arrian]

The only oddity I've ever noticed w/regard to open borders was this:

I had a warrior get stuck behind an unfriendly civ's borders (Egypt?). Hap wouldn't sign open borders, so I couldn't get him home. He was sitting in a gap in her borders, and since she was roadbuilding in that area I left him alive to occasionally pillage a road (dirty trick, I know, but she pissed me off).

Anyway, of course eventually the gap of neutral territory evaporated and my warrior was forceably kicked from his perch. But initially (one turn only), he ended up in another spot still within her borders. When I went to move him, I could only march directly for the exit, as it were (straight towards the closest neutral territory). Next turn, boom, he's kicked all the way out.

It could be that there were multiple border expansions in one turn - the first kicked him to a neutral spot which then immediately became no longer neutral, but he doesn't get moved again that turn.

I have not seen the ship issue at all, though, but if we can document it, we can make sure Firaxis knows and looks into it...

-Arrian

[Cordelayne]

Okay, I zipped the save file, uploaded it, and here is what appears to be the best link provided by Apolyton--

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=14433_save.zip

[Cordelayne]

I'm not getting the Apolyton upload feature, but here's an attempt to use the Forum's "attach file" feature.


Hallelujah. That works. Please forgive my ineptness with the uploading.

Again, as you can see from the save, the Germans have a frigate in my territory next to Coventry, although we're not at war and we have no open borders agreement. You can prove that we have no open borders agreement by trying to move any ship except a caravel into German territory, among other ways.

As I said in the thread above, earlier in this game the Germans had at least two galleons in my territory loaded with longbowmen and a settler, but I don't see them now. I think they went away after I seized the last oil resource in my territory.

I speculate that this may be some kind of corruption in an early save game file--the game acts as if it thinks the Germans have an open borders agreement from me (even though they keep asking for it and keep getting turned down), but not the other way around. Curious.

[MattPilot]

*** edit... nevermind, your third link works.