Diplomacy - options alway seem to be RED!

[LordShiva]

Yeah I have to complain about diplomacy too. If I were in the AI's position, and another civ came up to me, and had techs like Theology, Divine Right, Gunpowder, etc., and I had bogus techs like Calendar, no matter how much I hated him/her, I wouldn't list Calendar as "Untradeable."

[LordShiva]

Another thing: Why the heck does the AI know how many turns you have left before you discover a tech? I thought Civ4 was supposed to get rid of the omniscient AIs.

Also, silly question: What is this "|v|" that I keep seeing?

[lokiju]

I wholeheartedly agree. I am sick of people (who are not as strong as me!) who want me to give them a tech for free. A HuGe tech, while they have many things to give that are redded out. I had 4 people in 2 turns do this to me, and now all 4 are pissed. But if I ask them to do the same, they think I'm crazy. The diplomacy hurts this game. The options are wonderful, but the AI sucks.

The computer always wants to give me a 1000 beaker tech for my 2000 beaker tech. But when I want a tech of theirs that is, say, 100 more than mine, they say "hell no".

Stupid. And religion, while important, shouldn't make a civ -4 to me right out the gate. Sheesh. -1, maybe -2...but -4!? They never even met me until my ship ran into their island, and because I am of a different religion, they border on hate?

[-Ab-]

Red = "We don't like you" or "We don't want you to have this tech because we are building the Wonder/special unit"

its not... i could handle that its standard for a civ game
but the AI holds out on me all game,even refusing generous offers

They will always be asking for some free tech no matter what, and good luck getting anything out of them.. might as well bleed a stone

yeah you got that right
no matter how kind you are to a nation they wont give you a damn thing

fact is your playing 1 AI not 8 separate ones
at first glance they appear to actually play for their own goals but after a while you realise their goals are to keep the nation thats going to win on the top

unless of course thats you


Shiva lvl=level

[Mayfield]

Originally posted by -Ab-
fact is your playing 1 AI not 8 separate ones
at first glance they appear to actually play for their own goals but after a while you realise their goals are to keep the nation thats going to win on the top

To an extent yes. It seems the AI will go all out on the human player if they are close to victory, but the AI allows other AI's to win (I.E. Space race). But you can be more friendly/less friendly with the A.I.

For an example last game I was China playing mostly builder and I befriended Mali and the US. Mali would be a consistent ally in every war (even though he did not help much) and the US would be an excellent trading partner but not a fighter. But Mali would still beg for tech all the time. Eventually the Civ in 2nd place won a space victory (I did not have Aluminum, could not get it, which is another problem).

[Tiberius]

In my latest game Alexander was my best ally after refusing to help him several times in the beginning. Converting him to Hinduism did the trick

When trying to buy Rocketry from him, to my surprise it was red (he never refused me before). Moving the mouse over it gave me the explanation (the funniest answer I've seen so far): "No, thank you, I'd rather win the game myself" (or something similar). LOL

What botheres me is that the negative feelings never disappear, not even after thousand of years of peace, cooperation and friendship. Alexander was friendly with me and would trade almost anything, voted for me in the UN but he still had those "-x: you didn't give us ..." or "you didn't help us ..."or something similar, which happened in the ancient era! When the relations are overwhelmingly positive, the negative points should fade away in time.

[Martinus]

Originally posted by Mayfield
Red = "We don't like you" or "We don't want you to have this tech because we are building the Wonder/special unit"

So the AI actually considers what it wants to give you based upon your relations. If you have really good relations with an ally they will give you alot, but not as much as they demand from you however. They will always be asking for some free tech no matter what, and good luck getting anything out of them.. might as well bleed a stone.

Actually, the AI has given me techs when I asked nicely several times. And once, when I formed a permanent alliance with Elisabeth, she even contacted me once or twice and gave some money and resources on her own.

[quinalla]

Wow, I really have a different take on the AI diplomacy, I think it is much, much improved from civ3. The AI usually does fair offers, they almost always do a close to straight up tech trade (same beakers) or if they can't they will offer as much gold as they can.

Yes, they will ask for help when they really want a tech and don't have anything for trade, they will also ask for tributes of tech when they think you are too weak to refuse.

And they don't red out techs because you don't have enought to trade, they red them out because they don't like you enough or they don't want to trade because they are building the wonder from the tech or it unlocks something powerful.

And with pop ups explaining what they like and dislike, it is easy to see what you need to change to get them to like you. And if you don't want to change those things, there is always war

[Zorkk]

I think the diplomacy/AI in civIV here is awful, and a step back from how it was in civIII.

- Can't crosstrade, has to be tech for tech, or resource for resource. what happened to tradnig a resource for a tech?
- I can't seem to find a way to make demands!! give me such and such or die!
- not willing to trade -- In a number of games, i've been rather technologically ahead, yet the AI players still won't trade me horsebackriding for like theocracy. like c'mon!

All in all i'm rather dissapointed, the only thing i can think of is they did it like this to prevent the whoring of the AI that was so easy to do in civIII, but what a cheap way out.

Z

[Traelin]

Re: Diplomacy - options always seem to be RED!

Originally posted by =DrJambo=
Do people find that when they're trying to conduct some of the more interesting diplomatic relations with other civs that the options are always "red", i.e. not possible...?

It's incredibly frustrating knowing that there are lots of cool diplomatic options, but yet never being able to use any of them...

Is there a way to have less of them "redded out"?

IMHO this is OK, as is most of the diplomacy functionality. Let's be honest, diplomacy is MUCH better this time around. However, 2 comments:

1. The -3 points you get for attacking someone, whether it be cuz you're a warmonger or in a defensive pact, should be negated if you are attacked by them at a later date.

2. Say you start trade relations with Civ X, who happens to be enemies with Civ Y. However, you haven't met Civ Y, so you don't know that you're pissing them off. Now when you meet them, you notice that you automatically start out with -4 points (or whatever) because Civ X and Civ Y are enemies.

IMHO, this is the type of AI behavior that I hated in games like Civ3. It's the type of functionality that is completely out of the hands of the player. I mean really, are you supposed to not trade until you meet everybody? Basically the AI is maknig decisions about someone it hasn't even met yet.

Now that I think about it, I think I'll create a new thread about diplomacy and go into it in-depth.

[padillah]

Originally posted by quinalla
Wow, I really have a different take on the AI diplomacy, I think it is much, much improved from civ3. The AI usually does fair offers, they almost always do a close to straight up tech trade (same beakers) or if they can't they will offer as much gold as they can.

I find that on Noble they trade pretty straight-up myself (I think some of the people complaining are plaing on higher levels, in which case - it should be hard.). I use the beaker cost as a kind of guide to tell if this is a fair trade and it's mostly even.

And with pop ups explaining what they like and dislike, it is easy to see what you need to change to get them to like you. And if you don't want to change those things, there is always war

The biggest problem I have is really there's no getting rid of negatives. EVER. I mean, after some time they should go down a little right? And more than 20 or 30 turns of peace should get more than +1 (10 turns is a standard Peace Treaty so it should be more than that but twice or three times that is not a short time).

There is still some deffinate balance issues in the Diplomacy.

Tom P.