Diplomacy - options alway seem to be RED!

[=DrJambo=]

Do people find that when they're trying to conduct some of the more interesting diplomatic relations with other civs that the options are always "red", i.e. not possible...?

It's incredibly frustrating knowing that there are lots of cool diplomatic options, but yet never being able to use any of them...

Is there a way to have less of them "redded out"?

[Lucilla]

If the items are red, it just means you don't have enough to offer to make it a deal.

This could be because:
a) you don't have enough tech / gold to offer
b) the other civ doesn't like you enough

In case of b) you can improve relations by
- having the same religion
- having the same civic that the other prefers (see civilopedia > leaders)
- having open borders
- having ongoing deals
etc.

[padillah]

I feel the same way. There is currently no way for me to get Issabella to trade with me. NONE. She just won't do it.

I've given her tech, I've given her gold tribute... I'm close to giving her a city just to see if she is paying attention at all.

Tom P.

[padillah]

Originally posted by Lucilla

In case of b) you can improve relations by
- having the same religion
- having the same civic that the other prefers (see civilopedia > leaders)
- having open borders
- having ongoing deals
etc.

Oh yeah? Prove it! I've done all kinds of stuff and Iss will have little to do with me. It seems that once you refuse tribute, it's over. They will never like you.

I think I'm just going to have to crush her between Musala and me. (Hey, that sounds... nothing).

Tom P.

[Lucilla]

What level are you playing on, padillah?

Yes, it's true, once you refuse to deal with a civ, had a war in the past or if you are trading with their enemy, that makes trading harder in the future.

[Solver]

Overall, this is a big change from Civ3 that you need to get used to. In Civ3 you could bribe anyone and be friends with anyone. In Civ4, civs that hate you won't trade with you. And giving them gifts won't do enough.

You can't have everybody trading with you, so pick your side. There are economic/trading blocs, and you need to pick which one you're going to be on. Cautious, Pleased and Friendly are all good attitudes, and you can get to Cautious pretty easily. If you share religions with someone, you can always keep Cautious or better.

Don't try to be friends with absolutely everyone, pick your side, and you will have trades.

[Martinus]

Yeah, that's true. You simply will never be able to have everybody like you, because the moment X likes you, Y who hates X will hate you. So the price of being liked by Y is to get hated by X so it's probably not worth it.

[Kekkonen]

Yes folks, it's all a part of Civ 4 strategy, the first axiom of which is this:

I. Civilizations should be divided into two groups:
1. those who like you, and
2. those who get killed by you.

You don't trade with group 2. If you've somehow let them survive long enough to acquire something you want for yourself, you take it. Or die trying, depending on the difficulty level.

[padillah]

Originally posted by Lucilla
What level are you playing on, padillah?

Yes, it's true, once you refuse to deal with a civ, had a war in the past or if you are trading with their enemy, that makes trading harder in the future.

Um, what's the nominal level? Noble? Yeah, I think it's Noble.

She just HATES me! Like "I slept with her sister" hates me.

I'm just going to make a pact with Munsur and squish her. She's way too anoying now with charriots and War Elephatns all over the place. She's gotta go.

Thanks guys, I've made up my mind. Tonight Issabella goes! (I hope).

Tom P.

[Kekkonen]

That's the spirit, my good man!

How was her sister, by the way?

[AoA]

It is somewhat unfair that twice a AI civ walked into an undefended pop-1 city of mine (yes, yes I know I shouldn't do that) and declared war on me. Now I have a -7 rating to her (we're at war, I'm a heathen). Its gonna be tough overcoming that to get peace....and they're the ones that started it. And this is only on Warlord. I can't imagine how a peacemonger like me will make it up the ranks....although it is only my third full game in Civ4.

[Leuenberg]

Originally posted by AoA
It is somewhat unfair that twice a AI civ walked into an undefended pop-1 city of mine (yes, yes I know I shouldn't do that) and declared war on me. Now I have a -7 rating to her (we're at war, I'm a heathen). Its gonna be tough overcoming that to get peace....and they're the ones that started it. And this is only on Warlord. I can't imagine how a peacemonger like me will make it up the ranks....although it is only my third full game in Civ4.

Easy recipe to win peacefully (not a war in the game, cultural or diplomatic win):
Take a spiritual CIV and grab the most possible religions at the beginning, spam all the over civs with your missionnaries.
Once all share your first religion, beeline to United Nations (easest) or build up your culture (you will need the wonders).

I played Gandi this way at noble level with less warriors than I had cities and all the AI civ were friendly or pleased with me ! I had a diplomatic victory in the early XIXth century (cause a cultural win would have taken a few dozen more turn and I was bored )

Hint: don't do that in MP mode !

Now I'm playing a bit Napoleon in warmonger mode before I try the next level.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Lucilla
This could be because:
a) you don't have enough tech / gold to offer

Nope. I've only seen it red because "We just don't like you enough", "We would never trade with our worst enemy" or "We don't want to trade this just yet", but not once because I didn't have enough gold/tech to give
While often I see that they have a tech they want to trade, but when I ask them what they want for it, they just look angrily on me while telling me it's not possible

[-Ab-]

"we just dont like you enough" is just a lame ass way of refusing to trade cause,like, OMG you might start winning
If they do "like you enough" it will show up as we arnt ready to trade this tech
read it as "your not having it"

Yes, it's true, once you refuse to deal with a civ, had a war in the past or if you are trading with their enemy, that makes trading harder in the future.

hmmm
I meet a new nation
they are rated cautious and all the techs they have are red
the nation wants to trade but all its techs are red so it cant
it threatens/begs for tech because thats the only option sinse all its techs are red and i say no - because,well,no just psoff
i said no and now they dont like we so its harder to trade ?

the more i play this game the more annoying and frustrating this gets

im playing on monarchy lvl
my best guess is that the AI rates all its techs as worth about 1 and 2/3 of their true value eg. it will try and trade you horseback riding for something like astronomy but if you say no you want for eg. feudalism for astronomy it will say no
the AI also counts the turns left to your next tech and factors this in
eg a nation that has in the past refused to trade will pop up 1 turn before your due to get a tech and try and trade that tech for something (usually a reasonably fair offer except your 1 turn away so its obviously stupid)

how friendly you are make no difference whatsoever imo,the only thing the ai really takes into account is how powerful its thinks you will be with said tech
add to that you cant take tech thru conquest and you cant threaten in anyway....

the whole system props up a weak AI and it lets the game down

still,the classical music is nice

[Mayfield]

Red = "We don't like you" or "We don't want you to have this tech because we are building the Wonder/special unit"

So the AI actually considers what it wants to give you based upon your relations. If you have really good relations with an ally they will give you alot, but not as much as they demand from you however. They will always be asking for some free tech no matter what, and good luck getting anything out of them.. might as well bleed a stone.