Yeah I have to complain about diplomacy too. If I were in the AI's position, and another civ came up to me, and had techs like Theology, Divine Right, Gunpowder, etc., and I had bogus techs like Calendar, no matter how much I hated him/her, I wouldn't list Calendar as "Untradeable."
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Diplomacy - options alway seem to be RED!
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THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF
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Another thing: Why the heck does the AI know how many turns you have left before you discover a tech? I thought Civ4 was supposed to get rid of the omniscient AIs.
Also, silly question: What is this "|v|" that I keep seeing?THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF
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I wholeheartedly agree. I am sick of people (who are not as strong as me!) who want me to give them a tech for free. A HuGe tech, while they have many things to give that are redded out. I had 4 people in 2 turns do this to me, and now all 4 are pissed. But if I ask them to do the same, they think I'm crazy. The diplomacy hurts this game. The options are wonderful, but the AI sucks.
The computer always wants to give me a 1000 beaker tech for my 2000 beaker tech. But when I want a tech of theirs that is, say, 100 more than mine, they say "hell no".
Stupid. And religion, while important, shouldn't make a civ -4 to me right out the gate. Sheesh. -1, maybe -2...but -4!? They never even met me until my ship ran into their island, and because I am of a different religion, they border on hate?
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Red = "We don't like you" or "We don't want you to have this tech because we are building the Wonder/special unit"
but the AI holds out on me all game,even refusing generous offers
They will always be asking for some free tech no matter what, and good luck getting anything out of them.. might as well bleed a stone
no matter how kind you are to a nation they wont give you a damn thing
fact is your playing 1 AI not 8 separate ones
at first glance they appear to actually play for their own goals but after a while you realise their goals are to keep the nation thats going to win on the top
unless of course thats you
Shiva lvl=level
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Originally posted by -Ab-
fact is your playing 1 AI not 8 separate ones
at first glance they appear to actually play for their own goals but after a while you realise their goals are to keep the nation thats going to win on the top
For an example last game I was China playing mostly builder and I befriended Mali and the US. Mali would be a consistent ally in every war (even though he did not help much) and the US would be an excellent trading partner but not a fighter. But Mali would still beg for tech all the time. Eventually the Civ in 2nd place won a space victory (I did not have Aluminum, could not get it, which is another problem).
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In my latest game Alexander was my best ally after refusing to help him several times in the beginning. Converting him to Hinduism did the trick
When trying to buy Rocketry from him, to my surprise it was red (he never refused me before). Moving the mouse over it gave me the explanation (the funniest answer I've seen so far): "No, thank you, I'd rather win the game myself" (or something similar). LOL
What botheres me is that the negative feelings never disappear, not even after thousand of years of peace, cooperation and friendship. Alexander was friendly with me and would trade almost anything, voted for me in the UN but he still had those "-x: you didn't give us ..." or "you didn't help us ..."or something similar, which happened in the ancient era! When the relations are overwhelmingly positive, the negative points should fade away in time."The only way to avoid being miserable is not to have enough leisure to wonder whether you are happy or not. "
--George Bernard Shaw
A fast word about oral contraception. I asked a girl to go to bed with me and she said "no".
--Woody Allen
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Originally posted by Mayfield
Red = "We don't like you" or "We don't want you to have this tech because we are building the Wonder/special unit"
So the AI actually considers what it wants to give you based upon your relations. If you have really good relations with an ally they will give you alot, but not as much as they demand from you however. They will always be asking for some free tech no matter what, and good luck getting anything out of them.. might as well bleed a stone.The problem with leadership is inevitably: Who will play God?
- Frank Herbert
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Wow, I really have a different take on the AI diplomacy, I think it is much, much improved from civ3. The AI usually does fair offers, they almost always do a close to straight up tech trade (same beakers) or if they can't they will offer as much gold as they can.
Yes, they will ask for help when they really want a tech and don't have anything for trade, they will also ask for tributes of tech when they think you are too weak to refuse.
And they don't red out techs because you don't have enought to trade, they red them out because they don't like you enough or they don't want to trade because they are building the wonder from the tech or it unlocks something powerful.
And with pop ups explaining what they like and dislike, it is easy to see what you need to change to get them to like you. And if you don't want to change those things, there is always warJacob's Law "To err is human: to blame it on someone else is even more human."
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I think the diplomacy/AI in civIV here is awful, and a step back from how it was in civIII.
- Can't crosstrade, has to be tech for tech, or resource for resource. what happened to tradnig a resource for a tech?
- I can't seem to find a way to make demands!! give me such and such or die!
- not willing to trade -- In a number of games, i've been rather technologically ahead, yet the AI players still won't trade me horsebackriding for like theocracy. like c'mon!
All in all i'm rather dissapointed, the only thing i can think of is they did it like this to prevent the whoring of the AI that was so easy to do in civIII, but what a cheap way out.
Z
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Re: Diplomacy - options always seem to be RED!
Originally posted by =DrJambo=
Do people find that when they're trying to conduct some of the more interesting diplomatic relations with other civs that the options are always "red", i.e. not possible...?
It's incredibly frustrating knowing that there are lots of cool diplomatic options, but yet never being able to use any of them...
Is there a way to have less of them "redded out"?
1. The -3 points you get for attacking someone, whether it be cuz you're a warmonger or in a defensive pact, should be negated if you are attacked by them at a later date.
2. Say you start trade relations with Civ X, who happens to be enemies with Civ Y. However, you haven't met Civ Y, so you don't know that you're pissing them off. Now when you meet them, you notice that you automatically start out with -4 points (or whatever) because Civ X and Civ Y are enemies.
IMHO, this is the type of AI behavior that I hated in games like Civ3. It's the type of functionality that is completely out of the hands of the player. I mean really, are you supposed to not trade until you meet everybody? Basically the AI is maknig decisions about someone it hasn't even met yet.
Now that I think about it, I think I'll create a new thread about diplomacy and go into it in-depth.
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Originally posted by quinalla
Wow, I really have a different take on the AI diplomacy, I think it is much, much improved from civ3. The AI usually does fair offers, they almost always do a close to straight up tech trade (same beakers) or if they can't they will offer as much gold as they can.
And with pop ups explaining what they like and dislike, it is easy to see what you need to change to get them to like you. And if you don't want to change those things, there is always war
There is still some deffinate balance issues in the Diplomacy.
Tom P.
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