"English" Empire?

[Mao]

Originally posted by zorrofox
I didn't intend to frame this economically. I couldn't care less about that as they've already got my 30 squid. If this misrepresentation really was insignificant to people, would there be a market for a game of this type in the first place?

Good point. However, the sad part is that a mistake like this is insignificant to the majority of people I would think. We care about ourselves and what we know, and sadly don't care about the outside. Yes, there is this hype about a Civ player being more "intellectual" and "sophisticated" than players of...say, FPS or non-historical games, but that "*shrug* whatever" factor is still there. I mean, I personally don't care about such a mistake, no one else that brought the game thus far that I know does either. Maybe it says more about people than the game that a lot don't care?

EDIT - Wow...English bad me...

[Mao]

Originally posted by molly bloom



This is to confuse 'civilization' with state.

It was 'British' civilization that created the British Empire-with Scottish philosophers and economists, Welsh industrialists and Irish writers and soldiers.

What the creators have done is to intermingle the Scottish, Irish and Welsh with the English and call them all English, when a perfectly serviceable and more accurate alternative existed.

Really...hmmm..."British" is considered a civilization? I always thought of it more as a political term. Then again, I also have problems a lot of the time considering America as a "civilization" too.

[Kc7mxo]

heh, i tried to play the british the other day and couldn't find them on the list, confusuzled the heck out of me so i went back to playing Roosevelt. Then libby shows up as my neighbor!

[Verenti]

If Britiain isn't a Civilization because we comprise of four types of peoples then neither is the US(African Americans, Anglo Americans, and a variety of Immagrants), China(Considering the many different peoples, Han Chinese, etc.), Spain(Isn't there three cultures?), Germany(North and South Germans) or Russia (Good god, aren't they the hodge podge of cultures?).

And I'm pretty sure there might be other nations our there with multiple peoples aswell, but I'm lacking in Education in that Area. Does that make them invalid?

It should be Britain, Not England.

[Mao]

Originally posted by Verenti
If Britiain isn't a Civilization because we comprise of four types of peoples then neither is the US(African Americans, Anglo Americans, and a variety of Immagrants), China(Considering the many different peoples, Han Chinese, etc.), Spain(Isn't there three cultures?), Germany(North and South Germans) or Russia (Good god, aren't they the hodge podge of cultures?).

And I'm pretty sure there might be other nations our there with multiple peoples aswell, but I'm lacking in Education in that Area. Does that make them invalid?

It should be Britain, Not England.

*shrug* I could care less what the game does, esp. an issue as (frankly) small as this where the vanilla game didn't put "Britain" in. The thing about "civilization" to me is that it always connoted an ancient tone, like the Babylonian "civilization" or the Egyptian "civilization." It's something earned with time, you know? It's totally in my head of course. You can call it whatever you want, call them "Hodads" (hehe, anyone remember that?) if you want, but they made it English. If instead of changing it to Britain, what if they changed the leaders instead to purely English leaders? Would that make it alright as well?

But as to what the definition of a "civilization" is supposed to be, it's very fluid IMHO. I mean, do you consider the Belgians also a civilization? How about Iraqis? If Britain is, why not Iraq or Belgium? I always thought Britain was a political union first and foremost, but that could certainly be termed a civilization. Does one idenfity with their "civilization" first and foremost? Do people in the UK think of themselves as "British" first or as "English," "Welsh," "Scottish," etc. first? I'm actually curious as I don't know.

[lard]

Originally posted by Mao

But as to what the definition of a "civilization" is supposed to be, it's very fluid IMHO. I mean, do you consider the Belgians also a civilization? How about Iraqis? If Britain is, why not Iraq or Belgium? I always thought Britain was a political union first and foremost, but that could certainly be termed a civilization. Does one idenfity with their "civilization" first and foremost? Do people in the UK think of themselves as "British" first or as "English," "Welsh," "Scottish," etc. first? I'm actually curious as I don't know.

Strangely enough, a recent 'survey' done by someone or other found that a higher percentage of people in the various ethnic communities in the UK think of themselves as British. The others (people not considered as 'ethnic') think of themselves as English, Scottish, Welsh.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/1xtra/tx/british.shtml

My experience is that the Welsh think of themselves as Welsh, the Scottish think of themselves as Scottish and the English couldn't care less whether they're referred to as English or British. YMMV.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The English Empire has been in Civ since Civ1. I don't think there is any threat of them losing sales over it.

[Brutus66]

British history isn't my best subject, but it seems to me that the English were the people that created the British empire.
People like Edward I did it by subduing the Welsh and Scottish.
In 1803 Ireland was formally annexed, and they didn't merge with the British empire by choice.

[Volstag]

What the creators have done is to intermingle the Scottish, Irish and Welsh with the English and call them all English, when a perfectly serviceable and more accurate alternative existed.

They've done that with every civ in the game.

[zorrofox]

Originally posted by Brutus66
British history isn't my best subject, but it seems to me that the English were the people that created the British empire.
People like Edward I did it by subduing the Welsh and Scottish.
In 1803 Ireland was formally annexed, and they didn't merge with the British empire by choice.

You're right, it's not your subject is it? The empire was formed when Scotland and England joined under the Act of Union. Note that Scotland was not subsumed, but was in fact an equal partner. That's sadly not the case anymore unfortunately. Nowadays we're an ethnic minority in our own country without any of the rights of other more recent incoming minorities.

I guess it was daft of me to expect this game to get things right. Still a great game though.

[MikeH]

It should be the English Empire!

Stupid Celts.

As for Scots having less rights than incoming minorities. That's ridiculous. You have exactly the same rights as me or any other British citizen. Name me one right that an incoming minority has that you don't? Or one right that you think you should have above what rights I have?

Scotland consists of a few million of the population. We don't give Mancunians, Geordies or the Cornish any 'extra' rights either but in fact Scotland has more autonomy than most areas in that it has it's own devolved parliament etc.

Get over it.

[lard]

Now now...

Don't taunt the SNP nutter...

[Kuciwalker]

Re: "English" Empire?

Originally posted by zorrofox
Hi folks. The title says it all really. There was no such thing as an English Empire. There was a British Empire. This is not an unimportant detail. Try playing this game as a Scot and see how it feels.

Like you're irrelevant?

[kseecs16]

Originally posted by zorrofox


You're right, it's not your subject is it? The empire was formed when Scotland and England joined under the Act of Union. Note that Scotland was not subsumed, but was in fact an equal partner. That's sadly not the case anymore unfortunately. Nowadays we're an ethnic minority in our own country without any of the rights of other more recent incoming minorities.

I guess it was daft of me to expect this game to get things right. Still a great game though.

I think you're just going to have to own up to the fact and accept that the English culture is the dominant force in the United Kingdom and realize that what Sid Meier and the guys decided to call the various folks of British origins back in the good ole' days of CIV1 really does not matter a whole hell of a lot to anyone other than yourself.

[zorrofox]

Originally posted by MikeH
It should be the English Empire!

Stupid Celts.

As for Scots having less rights than incoming minorities. That's ridiculous. You have exactly the same rights as me or any other British citizen. Name me one right that an incoming minority has that you don't? Or one right that you think you should have above what rights I have?

Scotland consists of a few million of the population. We don't give Mancunians, Geordies or the Cornish any 'extra' rights either but in fact Scotland has more autonomy than most areas in that it has it's own devolved parliament etc.

Get over it.

Scotland has some autonomy because Scotland is a country, not a region. There's a difference. I don't see Scots as an option on Government forms. I'm not allowed to say aye as an affirmation in a British court. How much more do you need?

And it does matter in this game because even when I change the names in-game it's still an English flag I see coming over the hill. Improves my aim somewhat though.